On another forum, there was a bit of a chest beating match on power cables…but, it kind of peaked my curiosity to revisit power quality, aside from voltage, since I’ve really done a lot of system changes…again…kodawari…
A lot of my current conclusions, are based on experiments I did years ago, when my gear was less refined.
I did experiment with DIY power cords. Two memorable ones were upgrading the stock cord on a Fisher integrated with hardware store 12 gauge and a good plug. Another was a diy 14 gauge belden recipe for my st70. I actually thought the hardware store 12 gauge yielded a more positive improvement over the Teflon solid core belden. Basically, being a diy guy, my amps have mostly 14 gauge hardware store cable with the pass a seymour plug stocked at Home Depot...hardwired on the amp end. Never gave it much more thought.
In terms of power conditioning, years ago, I bought an Electronic Specialists, Inc. “Super Isolator (ISO-3)” at a flea market or surplus store somewhere. this device is probably the least snake oily power conditioner, I think, not even marketed as strictly audio…but, lab, video, etc. it’s just a black plastic enclosure, with 3 outlets and a short pigtail and a sticker with the product name, etc. With my gear at the time, I concluded it did nothing, but I kept it around, figuring it couldn’t hurt…keep it hooked up “just in case.”
So, this thread pops up, and it makes me think of that box, sitting under my system. I actually looked up the patent, and realized, I wasn’t really using it right…that the 3 sockets were not in parallel, but that you were supposed to put your different sources in each socket so they are isolated from each other. I had a power strip plugged into one, with all my digital stuff plugged into the strip…dac…tv…pc for Qobuz streaming…fire stick…phono amp…. armed with this new knowledge, and with my Altec/SET el84 amp, I said, well I’m going to put the dac on its own isolated outlet.
to my surprise, it sounded quite better and realized that simple box actually did something perhaps too subtle for my less refined systems in the past. Since I’m planning another Altec system in another room, I thought, “I need another.” Further to my surprise, someone on eBay was selling another of these weird boxes from the seventies. He had some info on it, that it was from the collection of an audiophile. I offered $30, and he accepted and that box arrived this week.
Since I don’t have that second system hooked up, I wanted to experiment with putting the SET amp on it. Being class A, a steady current draw, one could theorize that a power conditioner would not present a current bottleneck like an enormous solid state amp.
It makes a pretty significant difference on the amp, however, I don’t know if it’s completely clear which way is better. The difference is comparable to the difference between the pentode/triode switch on the amp. Plugged into the wall, there’s more energy in the upper midrange…the Altec magic area…and the image is flat and wide…plugged into the conditioner…the midrange energy is reduced, but the soundstage becomes far, far deeper. Listening to some Miles Davis, the distance of the drums is very different…plugged into the wall…the drums are slightly behind the speaker…plugged into the conditioner, the drums are between the listener and speaker. It’s far more holographic with the conditioner.
But, there is a bit of trade off with that midrange. What I found, is if I changed the l pad and my horn, I could eq some of it back. Also, moving the speaker a half inch from the walls, seems to have reduced some low mid haze and increase the sound stage.
What I think is happening is that the AC is introducing some kind of modulation distortions in the upper midrange, and really, I kind of built the sound of the system to compensate. When you remove those distortions, you lose a bit of energy there…my wife says, plugged into the wall the sound was more real. Very similar to what some people observe when I do triode vs pentode…the extra distortion of pentode is what, I think, they’re more accustomed to…and it’s better to them, even though a lot of subtlety is lost.
the altecs are very revealing, and listening for a few days with the conditioner, the sound is less harsh…there’s zero fatigue, which is something we all try to dial out…you can get more out of the horn. Also, I know I’ve read a few times people saying the Altecs don’t do the deep soundstage…and I can relate…I didn’t think I had the holographic SET sound so many write about on forums…but I’ve become convinced that addressing the ac helps. I don’t know if it’s cleaning up the ac, or isolating each component’s ac that makes the difference.
now, in thinking about this second system…which will be a 15” 803b with Emilar EA175/eh800 combo, I’ve decided I’m not going to go with the conditioner, because I want that system to be more of a fun, bombastic type of sound rather than the studio monitor vibe of my main system.
I’m still not 100% convinced on the amp, the sources…don’t hear much drawback. I’ve got one unit tube analog…amp, phono amp, one turntable…and one unit digital…dac, pc, tv… etc.
wondering if any other Altec/SET folks are using a conditioner, or have experimented along those lines.
A lot of my current conclusions, are based on experiments I did years ago, when my gear was less refined.
I did experiment with DIY power cords. Two memorable ones were upgrading the stock cord on a Fisher integrated with hardware store 12 gauge and a good plug. Another was a diy 14 gauge belden recipe for my st70. I actually thought the hardware store 12 gauge yielded a more positive improvement over the Teflon solid core belden. Basically, being a diy guy, my amps have mostly 14 gauge hardware store cable with the pass a seymour plug stocked at Home Depot...hardwired on the amp end. Never gave it much more thought.
In terms of power conditioning, years ago, I bought an Electronic Specialists, Inc. “Super Isolator (ISO-3)” at a flea market or surplus store somewhere. this device is probably the least snake oily power conditioner, I think, not even marketed as strictly audio…but, lab, video, etc. it’s just a black plastic enclosure, with 3 outlets and a short pigtail and a sticker with the product name, etc. With my gear at the time, I concluded it did nothing, but I kept it around, figuring it couldn’t hurt…keep it hooked up “just in case.”
So, this thread pops up, and it makes me think of that box, sitting under my system. I actually looked up the patent, and realized, I wasn’t really using it right…that the 3 sockets were not in parallel, but that you were supposed to put your different sources in each socket so they are isolated from each other. I had a power strip plugged into one, with all my digital stuff plugged into the strip…dac…tv…pc for Qobuz streaming…fire stick…phono amp…. armed with this new knowledge, and with my Altec/SET el84 amp, I said, well I’m going to put the dac on its own isolated outlet.
to my surprise, it sounded quite better and realized that simple box actually did something perhaps too subtle for my less refined systems in the past. Since I’m planning another Altec system in another room, I thought, “I need another.” Further to my surprise, someone on eBay was selling another of these weird boxes from the seventies. He had some info on it, that it was from the collection of an audiophile. I offered $30, and he accepted and that box arrived this week.
Since I don’t have that second system hooked up, I wanted to experiment with putting the SET amp on it. Being class A, a steady current draw, one could theorize that a power conditioner would not present a current bottleneck like an enormous solid state amp.
It makes a pretty significant difference on the amp, however, I don’t know if it’s completely clear which way is better. The difference is comparable to the difference between the pentode/triode switch on the amp. Plugged into the wall, there’s more energy in the upper midrange…the Altec magic area…and the image is flat and wide…plugged into the conditioner…the midrange energy is reduced, but the soundstage becomes far, far deeper. Listening to some Miles Davis, the distance of the drums is very different…plugged into the wall…the drums are slightly behind the speaker…plugged into the conditioner, the drums are between the listener and speaker. It’s far more holographic with the conditioner.
But, there is a bit of trade off with that midrange. What I found, is if I changed the l pad and my horn, I could eq some of it back. Also, moving the speaker a half inch from the walls, seems to have reduced some low mid haze and increase the sound stage.
What I think is happening is that the AC is introducing some kind of modulation distortions in the upper midrange, and really, I kind of built the sound of the system to compensate. When you remove those distortions, you lose a bit of energy there…my wife says, plugged into the wall the sound was more real. Very similar to what some people observe when I do triode vs pentode…the extra distortion of pentode is what, I think, they’re more accustomed to…and it’s better to them, even though a lot of subtlety is lost.
the altecs are very revealing, and listening for a few days with the conditioner, the sound is less harsh…there’s zero fatigue, which is something we all try to dial out…you can get more out of the horn. Also, I know I’ve read a few times people saying the Altecs don’t do the deep soundstage…and I can relate…I didn’t think I had the holographic SET sound so many write about on forums…but I’ve become convinced that addressing the ac helps. I don’t know if it’s cleaning up the ac, or isolating each component’s ac that makes the difference.
now, in thinking about this second system…which will be a 15” 803b with Emilar EA175/eh800 combo, I’ve decided I’m not going to go with the conditioner, because I want that system to be more of a fun, bombastic type of sound rather than the studio monitor vibe of my main system.
I’m still not 100% convinced on the amp, the sources…don’t hear much drawback. I’ve got one unit tube analog…amp, phono amp, one turntable…and one unit digital…dac, pc, tv… etc.
wondering if any other Altec/SET folks are using a conditioner, or have experimented along those lines.
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