Well, the financial system within my retirement is now solidified, even if the situations around grandchild guardianship, etc, are not. This means it is time to move some stuff from the living room system here down to the house in VA, and get a longterm setup going in the living room system(by the time he has read this, a friend in West Chester is likely saying 'about time!' or simply 'wow, he's going to do it!'). Anyhow, I've pretty much settled on the Tritons staying, and, for the moment, the old Pioneer table remaining. What will be changing is the amplification and disc player. For the latter, I have essentially settled upon an Oppo 105 setup from Overture with very good cabling and some vibration stabilizing addons. Now, to the amplification. My top end budget is about $5000, and thus far, the most intriguing thing I've heard is the Naim XS2. I am not a fan of the fiddling nature of tube amps, despite having heard some truly fine sounds from same. Reasons for the insistance on SS includes both my laziness and the ever present grandkids. Any of you out there with opinions on the Naim unit, or suggestions in the 2-5 grand price range for good sounding SS integrateds?
Time to help a guy out with your expert insight
- Thread starter TJLitt
- Start date
That's an easy one for me! I tried basically every integrated amp in that price range, including the Naims about a year or two back. There were two stand outs, both of which I ended up buying, one after the other. 
First was Exposure. I got the 3010S2, which sounded a lot like the Naim, but with a layer of grain removed.
Even better, and an amp that was really special, was the LFD IV. Wow, what an incredible piece of equipment that is. Figure a mix of really good transistor and SET. Really. Just a truly spectacular piece of equipment.
My two cents...
First was Exposure. I got the 3010S2, which sounded a lot like the Naim, but with a layer of grain removed.
Even better, and an amp that was really special, was the LFD IV. Wow, what an incredible piece of equipment that is. Figure a mix of really good transistor and SET. Really. Just a truly spectacular piece of equipment.
My two cents...
I did write some of this stuff up on some other audio site. Aside from the ones mentioned, I also tried Sonnateer, Redgum, Luxman, etc etc.
TJLitt;n15506 said:
My local dealer in Toronto carries LFD. So yes, I've heard all of their stuff.
Wouldn't one of the distributors in the US give you a home trial of some kind? With the limited distribution (and sales, and production), it wouldn't be that unusual a request.
I'd definitely add Exposure to the list also. The Exposure is so good that a friend of mine switched from tubes and horns to solid state and Spendors after hearing it (Yes, you Rick!
). Bill and Ernie heard that lineup too, with my Spendor SP 1/2e's.I can't claim PM's breadth of experience with this, I'm a tube amp guy at heart. But for SS integrateds in that price range, I think if it were me I'd either be looking at Naim, or Hegel, especially the Hegel H-160. I think I'd look at First Watt as well. Ideally, try to borrow some and see what works best with your speakers...
I'm basically tubes uber alles so my experience is limited.
It might stretch the budget a bit but I'd put the Luxman Class A amps on the audition list.
It might stretch the budget a bit but I'd put the Luxman Class A amps on the audition list.
TubeHiFiNut;n15558 said:
TJLitt, Gene Rubin Audio sells LFD. I think he's got the Naim Mu.so listed but doesn't seem to push the Naim amplifiers.
I was a Naim convert (5si) for a while and they are very fine amps IMO, very revealing and would have to agree with conventional wisdom in that they carry a lot of PRaT, which I define as communicating an emotional element of the music. I was an avid reader of the Naim Forums for a good while and it seemed like so many folks over there were always shooting for the Supernait 2 as their goal before resting. They come up used pretty regularly for under $4000.
Well, thanks for the input so far....knew I could count on you all. In the coming week, I'm sitting down at Overture and auditioning a Hegel 160, and 360, along with the XS2. and the Supernait, along with a pair of Naim separates in the 4500 buck range, and possibly two more separate combos or integrated from the McIntosh lineup, and Cambridge Audio's flagship integrated. For comparison, o tube addicts, I have asked that a listen to the Rogue Pharoah be tossed into the mix. All will be fed for the demo by the Oppo that I'm putting into the system, and listened to on Focal Aria floorstanders, which, when buying last year, I found to be similar in sonic qualities to the Tritons I settled on, and similar in efficiency(a bit less than the Tritons). We'll see if anything sells me from that, and move onward if not. Either way, I'll keep you all posted, and keep those suggestions coming. I note with appreciation the mention of Rubin as a source, but don't wish to deal with the Left Coast for a dealer if I don't have to.
thanks for the warning. It had to be done, though. Also, I'm requesting that the Marantz 8005 SACD be tossed in, as I'm hearing much about that being a better pure music player, especially with ribbor or Heil type tweeters, than the OPPO and also easier to set up and configure in a system sans TV.
I've got no firsthand experience with Schiit, but saw this and thought it might interest the OP.
http://www.cnet.com/news/the-audiophiliac-component-of-the-year-schiit-ragnarok-stereo-amplifier/
http://www.cnet.com/news/the-audiophiliac-component-of-the-year-schiit-ragnarok-stereo-amplifier/
writethis
Junior Member
Another to consider in the general area you seem to be gravitating toward is Rega's Elex-R. I love mine, even more than my tube amps (TAD-60 and VanAlstine Super 70i).
http://www.whathifi.com/rega/elex-r/review
http://www.whathifi.com/rega/elex-r/review
Final listening setup after a short discussion with my sales manager at Overture: Will be listening solely to the Marantz CD player and a Naim deck whose number eludes me. Art recommended listening to them, despite the lack of SACD(he suggests that the CD layer will sound better than SACD on the Marantz. We will see). As for amps in the shootout, a Hegel 160, Naim Nait XS2, Naim Supernait, a pair of lower end Naim separates, the Rega Elicit-R(step up from writethis' suggestion above), and Rogue Pharoah.
All fed into a pair of Focal Aria series floorstanders.
My list of music that will be sampled is this: Oscar Peterson Trio- We Get Requests(SACD). Good one for timbre and general soundstage. Piano is important to get right.
Esperanza Spalding--Radio Music Society(CD). Complex with female vocals that can show sonic weaknesses brutally in the
upper registers.
Trombone Shorty--Backatown(CD). Brash, complex, mix of modern and traditional timbres.
Little Feat--Waiting for Columbus(CD) Live ambiance, a rock album for a switchup, and one I've known for a long time
Telarc SACD sampler--good mix of recordings that will show SACD to full effect. One or two from Ray Charles cover male
vocals and well mixed instrumentals.
Only 2 1/2 hours for this demo, so I'll have to stay organized. Report will follow.
All fed into a pair of Focal Aria series floorstanders.
My list of music that will be sampled is this: Oscar Peterson Trio- We Get Requests(SACD). Good one for timbre and general soundstage. Piano is important to get right.
Esperanza Spalding--Radio Music Society(CD). Complex with female vocals that can show sonic weaknesses brutally in the
upper registers.
Trombone Shorty--Backatown(CD). Brash, complex, mix of modern and traditional timbres.
Little Feat--Waiting for Columbus(CD) Live ambiance, a rock album for a switchup, and one I've known for a long time
Telarc SACD sampler--good mix of recordings that will show SACD to full effect. One or two from Ray Charles cover male
vocals and well mixed instrumentals.
Only 2 1/2 hours for this demo, so I'll have to stay organized. Report will follow.
may have to stretch it to two days.......would prefer not to. My system is this: I have two core tunes in mind for everyone. The cut might be made if I hear something I don't like. The remainder will see two more tunes, with more subtle cues to listen to. Then maybe two more on the leading amp, repeated with each deck(all others will be played on the Marantz). If at the end, I find a deck/amp pairing that meets my targets, I'd be both pleasantly surprised and happy. I do think the short field will be in the ballpark by all reports, and one(Hegel) is going to have to be a real standout, because the connector choices on that one don't play well with my mix of sources. I have highest hopes going in for the Supernait2 and the Rogue, but odd stuff can happen along the way, and if I am not really pleased(with a right of return good for 30 days, minimum) it's on to other options. These things are always fun, at any rate.
Well, post shootout results. First off, there was a clear winner in the shiny-silver-disc player category. The Oppo BDP-105 was clearly better sounding to my tastes than the Marantz, and sonically equivalent to the much pricier Naim unit tested(although the latter WAS built like a freaking tank). The Oppo,compared to the Marantz, had superior clarity, positioning of instruments and wider stage. Had to double check my initial thoughts, but they were confirmed on 2nd round of a-b testing.
Now, to amps. The Hegel was ok, but nothing outrageous. The XS2 from Naim was very nice, overall. Well built, straightforward controls and layout of inputs. Very nice. The Rogue units(Pharoah and next model down, which eludes me name-wise) were seductive, but, with the stock tubes, to my ears, a bit over the top.The Pharoah was far better suited, of the two, to handling the speaker load, although the Focal 936 is likely a bit more demanding than my Triton 2s. Something, notably the bass was just not right to my tastes. By that, I mean, the bass seemed a bit 'tubby', the tonality different, but potentially a bit forward sounding to me. The unit not present, due to a miscommunication with Overture and myself, was the Supernait2, which several have indicated is light years ahead of the XS2, and well worth the 2000 buck bump up in price. So, I've worked out a deal, after much haggling. I have a Supernait being brought to my house. If I am not satisfied with it, Naim is taking it back, when their rep is in town in early December. So I will have about 4 weeks to break it in and listen really hard to it. Reports to follow. If, indeed it is that much better than the XS2, which was actually quite nice, I have a keeper forever. If not, well, we've all been to THAT movie, too, haven't we?
Now, to amps. The Hegel was ok, but nothing outrageous. The XS2 from Naim was very nice, overall. Well built, straightforward controls and layout of inputs. Very nice. The Rogue units(Pharoah and next model down, which eludes me name-wise) were seductive, but, with the stock tubes, to my ears, a bit over the top.The Pharoah was far better suited, of the two, to handling the speaker load, although the Focal 936 is likely a bit more demanding than my Triton 2s. Something, notably the bass was just not right to my tastes. By that, I mean, the bass seemed a bit 'tubby', the tonality different, but potentially a bit forward sounding to me. The unit not present, due to a miscommunication with Overture and myself, was the Supernait2, which several have indicated is light years ahead of the XS2, and well worth the 2000 buck bump up in price. So, I've worked out a deal, after much haggling. I have a Supernait being brought to my house. If I am not satisfied with it, Naim is taking it back, when their rep is in town in early December. So I will have about 4 weeks to break it in and listen really hard to it. Reports to follow. If, indeed it is that much better than the XS2, which was actually quite nice, I have a keeper forever. If not, well, we've all been to THAT movie, too, haven't we?
I hope it works out well for you. Bummer that you couldn't listen to Exposure or LFD. The Exposure sounded very similar to the Naim's, but with a layer of grain removed, and a cheaper price. I guess I forget how lucky I am to have all this stuff available for me to try.
PM, did you listen to the Supernait2? I remembered you as listening to the XS2. I stretched the budget way up to grab the SN2, If the SN2 isn't doing very well, I'll look into Exposure. The reports on the LFD were along the lines of 'fine for jazz, etc, but will not rock'. I heard that a LOT in that last week, so might not be a match for me. Of course, as we all know, this stuff is very individual. As for the XS2, I didn't sense a 'layer of grain', in any sense, compared to either the Hegel 360 or the Rogues. Of course, the Exposure was not in the mix. The sound of the lesser Naim was nice, to my ears, and the step up to a much more robust pre-amp section(appropriated from the upper end separates) and the Class A headphone amp, along with the extra wattage should make a VERY interesting pairing with the Tritons
One thing I have noted, reading your reviews over the years, is that you and I are after somewhat different sonic goals. That's fine, hell, that's part of this hobby. I still value your insight, and will fill you in on what I discover with the SN2.
One thing I have noted, reading your reviews over the years, is that you and I are after somewhat different sonic goals. That's fine, hell, that's part of this hobby. I still value your insight, and will fill you in on what I discover with the SN2.
Prime Minister - I'm glad that you are really up to speed on current solid state integrated amps and are able to help TJLitt .
I'm afraid that this is one category with which I am woefully uninformed.
I'm afraid that this is one category with which I am woefully uninformed.
