I’m really strongly thinking of buying a lot of this cable because I’m sure it will go up in price.
More Duelund fun, this time speaker cable!
- Thread starter marantzfan
- Start date
are you using the wire straight or braiding it? i think jeff was using it straight, based on the pictures from his site.
I was just running it straight, no braiding.
dowto1000
Junior Member
I think you guys, and Jeff Day and all his audio buddies, are all missing the boat !! Just IMHO.
First of all, Jeff Day and you all are not using enough wire !! For maximum dynamic contrasting, and audio realism, one must obtain a high transfer efficiency through the wiring.
( a ) I find it takes a bare minimum of two 12 AWG runs, for each polarity, between the audio amplifier and the High Efficiency speaker crossover.
(b) It takes about a single 14 AWG run to wire the crossover's tweeter section. The run from the crossover to the tweeter ( in my case, an ALTEC 802D ) takes 16 AWG as the minimum AWG, and a good overall AWG choice to a tweeter.
(c) It certainly takes TWO 12 AWG runs in parallel, for each separate polarity, from the crossover to the High Efficiency woofer ( in my case , an ALTEC 515B ) .
( d ) I find it sounds best when none of the separate polarities touch each other. No twisting of the positive and negative boys and girls.
It takes a good wide band wire to pull this off. Duelund, with a tin coating, would not likely cut it. The wire will have to have some silver content, so as to maintain the highs.
So you cats think Duelund is a performance bargain. LOL. Not me !! Not at all . At about 1/3 the cost, I think ( huge caveat - have not A-Bed the Duelund ) .... I think there is a far better performing choice out there. It is Mil Spec m22759/11 in 12 AWG and 16 AWG, available on a low-ball basis on eBay, all the time. It is pure stranded copper, that is silver plated, and is in a teflon jacket, made precisely to military specifications. I would be willing to bet it will EAT the Duelund in performance, when used precisely as I have DETAILED. Tin plating only gets you so far on the high end, compared to military spec silver plating. I pay 50 cents a foot for 12 AWG m22759/11 typically.
I have posted two or three times up here on this, including a tutorial and schematic for wiring a two way High Efficiency speaker system amp to drivers, for all to see. Use the lengths I have detailed , 57 1/8th inches, multiples, sometimes divisors.
If you have questions, just ask me.
Dowto1000
First of all, Jeff Day and you all are not using enough wire !! For maximum dynamic contrasting, and audio realism, one must obtain a high transfer efficiency through the wiring.
( a ) I find it takes a bare minimum of two 12 AWG runs, for each polarity, between the audio amplifier and the High Efficiency speaker crossover.
(b) It takes about a single 14 AWG run to wire the crossover's tweeter section. The run from the crossover to the tweeter ( in my case, an ALTEC 802D ) takes 16 AWG as the minimum AWG, and a good overall AWG choice to a tweeter.
(c) It certainly takes TWO 12 AWG runs in parallel, for each separate polarity, from the crossover to the High Efficiency woofer ( in my case , an ALTEC 515B ) .
( d ) I find it sounds best when none of the separate polarities touch each other. No twisting of the positive and negative boys and girls.
It takes a good wide band wire to pull this off. Duelund, with a tin coating, would not likely cut it. The wire will have to have some silver content, so as to maintain the highs.
So you cats think Duelund is a performance bargain. LOL. Not me !! Not at all . At about 1/3 the cost, I think ( huge caveat - have not A-Bed the Duelund ) .... I think there is a far better performing choice out there. It is Mil Spec m22759/11 in 12 AWG and 16 AWG, available on a low-ball basis on eBay, all the time. It is pure stranded copper, that is silver plated, and is in a teflon jacket, made precisely to military specifications. I would be willing to bet it will EAT the Duelund in performance, when used precisely as I have DETAILED. Tin plating only gets you so far on the high end, compared to military spec silver plating. I pay 50 cents a foot for 12 AWG m22759/11 typically.
I have posted two or three times up here on this, including a tutorial and schematic for wiring a two way High Efficiency speaker system amp to drivers, for all to see. Use the lengths I have detailed , 57 1/8th inches, multiples, sometimes divisors.
If you have questions, just ask me.
Dowto1000
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Jeepers, Jeff...
IMHO means “In My Humble Opinion”
There’s nothing humble about your post. It’s condescending and rude. Cut it out, already!
Agreed. A little humility would go a long way there.
I get your passion, but this is NOT the way to express it. Allow the other guys to have their fun, too.
Instead of crapping on these guys discussion, why not start your own on the military wire?
I get your passion, but this is NOT the way to express it. Allow the other guys to have their fun, too.
Instead of crapping on these guys discussion, why not start your own on the military wire?
dowto1000
Junior Member
Baloney !! To me, IMHO means " in my honest opinion ". I think my post was stellar !! There was nothing condescending nor rude in my post. I am suggesting that the Duelund may be easily bettered by a wire at one third the cost, that you are all on the wrong path perhaps, and I am pointing out that people, in general do not use enough wire to transfer energy efficiently .
If anything, if you have an open mind, you should thank me for offering an alternative course of action, that will cost less and perform higher ( possibly ). It certainly performs lovely in the places I have used and heard it !! I pay no more than 0.50 a foot for 12 AWG, beautifully made, silver plated to a Military Specification.
Dowto1000
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dowto1000
Junior Member
Hi PM.
I am not " crapping" on a discussion, LOL, I am suggesting an alternative I THINK is likely higher performing, and at a fraction of the cost.
I have done two or three write ups of this wire, on this forum this year, and took the time to draw and post a full schematic, in the form of a tutorial, for others to learn how to use it, including precise length information to employ.
Am I the lone voice in the wilderness?? So be it !!
Have a lovely day. I plan to, 'am modding a lovely solid state receiver today, poorly wired, with this precise Mil Spec wire, which should be an improvement. ' Have two of the same units, so I will compare stock to re-wired receivers easily.
Dowto1000
You are really missing the mark here Jeff. There’s a reason why so many people liked @Redboy post. I will PM you shortly to further discuss.
@dowto1000 - Jeff, I do intend to try this wire at some point - just to see.
Maybe it will be better than the 18ga mil spec silver plated copper wire that I previously tried. Tried different numbers of runs and ended up using multiple runs to get ~12ga. Didn't much care for it.
Been trying to find the partial spools to compare the numbers. Will eventually just grab some of the 12ga you recommend off of eBay to see.
Where is this in my priority list? Not too high. As I stated, the previous experiences I've had with mil spec silver plated copper wire, and silver plated copper in general, was not that good.
Pure silver - Heck yeah!
OFC - Can sound very good. I was extremely impressed by the cables manufactured by @ColinWonfor .
Tinned copper - This one really surprised me. I had a bias against tinned copper but the Canare, Belden, WE and Duelund tinned copper interconnects and speaker cables I own have become my primary cables.
So.....I still want to try the mil spec cable you recommended, just not at all sure when I'll get around to it since what I've got really knocks my socks off.
In the meantime, the advice that @Redboy , @Prime Minister , @marantzfan , @Audionut and others (including me) have given you regarding how to approach other experienced, knowledgeable and capable Audiophiles is sound and would advance your opinions a lot farther than your current approach.
And this, my friend, is my humble opinion.
Maybe it will be better than the 18ga mil spec silver plated copper wire that I previously tried. Tried different numbers of runs and ended up using multiple runs to get ~12ga. Didn't much care for it.
Been trying to find the partial spools to compare the numbers. Will eventually just grab some of the 12ga you recommend off of eBay to see.
Where is this in my priority list? Not too high. As I stated, the previous experiences I've had with mil spec silver plated copper wire, and silver plated copper in general, was not that good.
Pure silver - Heck yeah!
OFC - Can sound very good. I was extremely impressed by the cables manufactured by @ColinWonfor .
Tinned copper - This one really surprised me. I had a bias against tinned copper but the Canare, Belden, WE and Duelund tinned copper interconnects and speaker cables I own have become my primary cables.
So.....I still want to try the mil spec cable you recommended, just not at all sure when I'll get around to it since what I've got really knocks my socks off.
In the meantime, the advice that @Redboy , @Prime Minister , @marantzfan , @Audionut and others (including me) have given you regarding how to approach other experienced, knowledgeable and capable Audiophiles is sound and would advance your opinions a lot farther than your current approach.
And this, my friend, is my humble opinion.
dowto1000
Junior Member
Thanks for you even handed response !!
It was about 1981 or 1982 that we ( Robert Fulton and me as his So. California Rep ) started to put double runs of FMI Brown wire ( about 10 AWG, so double would be three AWG less, or 7 AWG ) to the woofers of the Premiere speakers.
The P-10 speakers, and variants thereafter ( P-10 to P-22 ) , were plus or minus 1 dB from 12 hZ to 110 kHZ, the widest band speaker ever made in the history of audio.
I have NO IDEA what you, or others will " find" using ( or more likely, mis-using by not following my tutorial exactly ) my wire suggestions. All I suggest is, what I suggested, and what I am doing today, as being a viable, and very cost-effective alternative.
Have GREAT day !! Have fun. I do.
Dowto1000
It was about 1981 or 1982 that we ( Robert Fulton and me as his So. California Rep ) started to put double runs of FMI Brown wire ( about 10 AWG, so double would be three AWG less, or 7 AWG ) to the woofers of the Premiere speakers.
The P-10 speakers, and variants thereafter ( P-10 to P-22 ) , were plus or minus 1 dB from 12 hZ to 110 kHZ, the widest band speaker ever made in the history of audio.
I have NO IDEA what you, or others will " find" using ( or more likely, mis-using by not following my tutorial exactly ) my wire suggestions. All I suggest is, what I suggested, and what I am doing today, as being a viable, and very cost-effective alternative.
Have GREAT day !! Have fun. I do.
Dowto1000
...this close to not being offensive. Well done, sir.
Actually, yes you are crapping on this thread. And you are not SUGGESTING an alternative. You are talking down to everyone who is of a different opinion then you, or who are curious about the other cable in the discussion. Just adding an "IMHO" to a borderline offensive statement, doesn't make it less offensive. It just makes you seem like a jerk.
To be honest, you are the biggest moderation challenge on this forum right now. You provide really interesting information, and you have made some really thought provoking suggestions. Your passion for the hobby really shines through, and I would love to hear the amps you recommend and the systems you have put together. I don't doubt at all that you have much knowledge to share, and much information and education that you can provide. In that way, I really appreciate your contributions to the Haven, and would like to see you be a long term member of our little online family.
However, there really aren't many members that you have not insulted or offended by your comments. And to clarify, it is not the opinions you hold, or your audio preferences. It is all about HOW you express them. And very often, you wade into a thread like this, and in some not very humble way, effectively tell everyone they are idiots for not doing things your way.
I want to keep you as a member, but you are not making it easy. In the Haven, I prefer to do all moderation out in the open, so that the members realize we are living up to the high standards we have set for this place. I built this place to try to have one site on the internet where passionate people who shared my hobby could come together and have polite, respectful and intelligent discussion. Not that they all had to agree with each other and share the same views or tastes. They could come and disagree about anything they wanted. As long as they did so politely and respectfully.
You are often, not always, failing the polite and respectful part of the equation. We have worked with you a number of times to try to get you onboard with the Haven way, and we still hope to keep you here.
Let me be totally clear with you. Should you choose to express your opinion in an insulting way again, you will be suspended for a week. If you do it a second time, it will be a month long suspension. And should you do it a third time, then the suspension will be permanent.
You know what we expect of our members. You now know the consequences. Your continuing on the Haven is now up to you.
Should you have any questions, please feel free to message myself or any of the moderation staff. We have interrupted this thread enough.
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