Really Good Gear... That You Just Got Tired Of

I forgot about the Kef LS-50s. I liked them and consider them good, but they didn't fit my setup as they were for a 2nd system but demanded 1st system money for amps. Man were they ever picky about amps, at least to get the best out of them. If you ran a really expensive high power amp into them they were great. If you cheaped out, they rapidly fell apart into their worst habits.
 
Had a view pieces of gear over the years that lots of people seem to like but just never did it for me:
  • Klipsch Forte II's - read all the hype about tubes and horns. Ear-bleeding treble; flabby, one-note bass. Supposedly require 100's of dollars of crossover and driver upgrades to sound their best (simply do not understand why a company would sell a product like that???). Couldn't sell them fast enough.
  • Carver TFM-25 - read the Carver challenge and drank the Kool-aid. Used one for years 'til on a whim tried a different amp. Revealed the Carver to sound flat and boring with woolly bass.
  • Carver CT-17 - lifeless, 2-dimensional, completely un-involving.
  • Grado SR-80's - bought into the Stereophile hype, used 'em for years but could never warm up to the sound or the beyond uncomfortable ear-pads.
 
Most of it. No seriously most of it. I regret a few sales over the years but only a tape deck and a power regulator are over 10 years with me in the stack.
It’s a rotation.
 
Long time ago,the Audio Note KIT 300B ( original UK issue)
Despite parts upgrade and tube rolling it did not klick for me?
I think I guess it was the push-pull driver stage to blame,
Why manufacture a single end amplifier with an PP driver stage?
 
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  • Klipsch Forte II's - read all the hype about tubes and horns. Ear-bleeding treble; flabby, one-note bass. Supposedly require 100's of dollars of crossover and driver upgrades to sound their best (simply do not understand why a company would sell a product like that???). Couldn't sell them fast enough.
Haha!

Now don't get me wrong, here. I loved Fortes because they gave me my first taste of what low-powered tubes can do for high-efficiency horns. But the mods!! All you have to do to improve a Forte is replace the drivers, rebuild the crossovers, change out all the wiring, damp the horns and brace the cabinet... I may be forgetting a few key things.

It's like Grandpa's hammer from the old country! 🤣
 
I too am guilty of building a whole new speaker out of a pair of Fortes. And with the exception of the cross over, I did most of it myself. I remember the rope caulking and loctite material for horn damping driving me to the brink of madness! Did it sound better after all the mods and hundreds of dollars in crossover mods? Oh yes. Did a cheaper speaker enter the arena and match it in sound quality? Oh yes. Lesson learned.
 
I, too, acquired a pair of Fortes with the intention of modding them. However, what I heard from them unmodified was so far off from what a gravitate towards that I quickly sent them on their way, saving the effort for something else probably equally disappointing...
 
Moving stuff on for me has been mostly about moving up to another level, or just a different direction. When I first got into this it was the AR bug that caught me so I put all my efforts into AR, KLH etc. I had no interest in Horns and no way was I going to get into tubes because you know, AR's can't properly be driven by tubes.
Done a 180 since.
So for the most part I have been selling off speakers. No because they are bad, but because they are just taking up space. And, with good horns and tubes I've found there to be much more life to the presentation so that when I go back to smaller AS and ported speakers, I miss that.

Sold my AR9's
Would sell my fully rebuilt Ar3's if I could get out of them what I put into them.
Dahlquist M907
Thinking about selling my ADS L1590
Infinity RSII Fantastic, but not me. Plus that oak...yuck.
Should sell my Apogees. The require amplification and frankly cables I'm not interested in acquiring right now.
Sold some JBL 4313b. Found out the smaller JBL's, albeit great, are just not the type of JBL I'm interested in.
Then once I fired up the KHorns I custom built I got rid of some LaScalas and Heresy's. (Never liked the Heresy's)

Just sold some very nice Zu Dirty Weekends simply because, well, they are new.

Sold Altec Valencias and now going to sell some Santiagos after restoring both entirely including new foam grills. Did em, heard em, loved em, now moving on from that particular Altec horn style. Heard the 32 horn and will never look back to anything ending in 11.
 
My equipment changes in my main system have always been steps up in quality. So I really didn't get tired of anything, but knew I could do better. Now I'm in that place where I'm settled into a system and any improvements would cost way too much for little return. My path to the high end was all about opportunity and patience--I waited years for some of these to become available at such low prices. My power amp, for instance, was listed locally on Craigslist for months, at a price I felt was too low to be true. But it turns out the owner needed the money for medical bills.

I've had some gear I used to like, but don't like anymore. I also have a few I never liked from the first time I tried them. And I have others I still do like but they were stepping stones to what I own now, and they only take up space. For something like the Vandersteen 2CE pair I own, I do kind of like them enough to keep them, yet don't have the room since we need to downsize before we relocate. And I got them at such an incredible bargain (the owner's home had been foreclosed and they were moving out of the house in a hurry) that I would never find a pair again at that price. I also have to consider if I'll ever live in another home that has room for a second system, which is highly unlikely.

I do miss using my Nakamichi PA7, the Stasis amp that Nelson Pass designed. I don't think I'll get rid of it. If something happens to my other power amp, this one is ready to go in its place. But the Carver and the Rotel? The sooner those boat anchors are out of my life, the better. 😁
 
I do miss using my Nakamichi PA7, the Stasis amp that Nelson Pass designed. I don't think I'll get rid of it. If something happens to my other power amp, this one is ready to go in its place. But the Carver and the Rotel? The sooner those boat anchors are out of my life, the better. 😁
I hate to admit it, but I still have a love for Carver gear. Not the sound of Carver gear, per se, but just the gear. I'd still love a later, TFM series amp, with the big, round meters. Just super cool.

I do actually still regret selling my Sunfire amp. That was a sweetheart.
 
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Decades ago I Enjoyed two pairs, stacked, ESS Rock Monitors, Bi-amped, equalized in a full SAE system. My “rock” days. I tried a pair of same speakers years later and couldn’t get my ears around them. They lasted me about 6 months before I peddled on Craigslist.
 

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I hatter admit it, but I still have a love for Carver gear. Not the sound of Carver gear, per se, but just the gear. I'd still love a later, TFM series amp, with the big, round meters. Just super cool.
I had an M400a cube fresh out of high school and back then, loudness trumped quality. When that developed a constant buzz, I got a used M500t--that's the dark grey/bronze-colored front panel with the huge analog meters. Looked great! But I had issues with it also, and it always had that tiny bit of "commutator" noise (or whatever it was) deep in the background, like the M400 did. It sounded good but in hindsight really wasn't anything special--not goosebump-inducing, in other words. It probably would improve noticeably if someone were to replace all the capacitors, as they're quite tired by now. And the amp was probably a dozen years old, or more, when I bought it.

One of the Carver amps from that era (M1.0t) was part of that challenge to Bob Carver from Stereophile to make one of his amps sound like a high-end product (which turned out to be a Conrad-Johnson Premier 4). Carver knew his circuits inside and out, and he was able to pull it off. His recent tube amps, incidentally, sound wonderful! Although I know that a few of us who heard his "Amazing" loudspeaker at AXPONA were disappointed in the sound--I found it to be too bright and lacking in dynamics. (It's not the same as his original speaker design from a couple of decades ago.)
 
Decades ago I Enjoyed two pairs, stacked, ESS Rock Monitors, Bi-amped, equalized in a full SAE system. My “rock” days. I tried a pair of same speakers years later and couldn’t get my ears around them. They lasted me about 6 months before I peddled on Craigslist.
I went to a meet a few years ago and there was a set there...mated to some pretty good electronics. I was "oh boy!" about getting to hear them... but when it was all said and done, I walked away unimpressed. :-I
 
Started in the world of horns with a pair of Klipsch Forte II's - enjoyed them up until I realized I was getting as much out of their performance as I could and... I wanted more. Sold them and a pair of original Advents (couldn't deal with their midrange suckout) and bought a pair of Altec Valencia 846B's.

Now, I really enjoyed the Valencias, but an exciting prospect came along and they needed to go pay for a curious thing I'll post about in the next few months.

Recently I bought another pair of Valencias, 846A's, and now I'm working to decide if I like them more than my 9849's - the 811's suck, but the combination of the 614's and @Tsingtao_1903's WE-inspired horns is really making me wonder how much I'm willing to modify that classic....
 
I had an M400a cube fresh out of high school and back then, loudness trumped quality. When that developed a constant buzz, I got a used M500t--that's the dark grey/bronze-colored front panel with the huge analog meters. Looked great! But I had issues with it also, and it always had that tiny bit of "commutator" noise (or whatever it was) deep in the background, like the M400 did. It sounded good but in hindsight really wasn't anything special--not goosebump-inducing, in other words. It probably would improve noticeably if someone were to replace all the capacitors, as they're quite tired by now. And the amp was probably a dozen years old, or more, when I bought it.

One of the Carver amps from that era (M1.0t) was part of that challenge to Bob Carver from Stereophile to make one of his amps sound like a high-end product (which turned out to be a Conrad-Johnson Premier 4). Carver knew his circuits inside and out, and he was able to pull it off. His recent tube amps, incidentally, sound wonderful! Although I know that a few of us who heard his "Amazing" loudspeaker at AXPONA were disappointed in the sound--I found it to be too bright and lacking in dynamics. (It's not the same as his original speaker design from a couple of decades ago.)

I think what I loved about Bob Carvers stuff was that there was always a sense of fun to what it was doing. Stereo for him was a cool toy, at a time when the hobby was getting more and more stuffy and boring. Plus, his stuff was always realistically priced. Not cheap, but not in the league with the one inch think faceplate guys. There was also a sense of theatre to what he did. Big meters. Funky product names. Totally different approaches. Again, it was fun.

Plus, I’ve had the pleasure of talking and dealing with Bob, and he’s one of the most honourable guys in the industry.

Fun is something that is sadly lacking from the industry now.
 
Although I know that a few of us who heard his "Amazing" loudspeaker at AXPONA were disappointed in the sound--I found it to be too bright and lacking in dynamics. (It's not the same as his original speaker design from a couple of decades ago.)
Was that the one that looked like a stack of AMT tweeters? That sort of sums up Carver for me... a fun, cool, experiment that's not necessarily sonically successful (despite being sold on the idea that it is). It's all far too much into PT Barnum-land for my tastes. He's always trying to reinvent the wheel when I, personally, am just trying to find the best wheel. As long as he and his customers are having fun.
 
The Carver room at the Florida Audio Expo this past February looked amazing, and I so wanted it to sound good (to live up to the hype...here we go again :rolleyes:). Plus, those new tube amps that Bob is building are goregeous. But alas, they spent NO time on actually setting up the gear, so the room sounded like horse dung. Plus, there were some morons in the back of the room that would NOT shut up during the audition.
 
Was that the one that looked like a stack of AMT tweeters?
Yes, that's the one! But unfortunately...
But alas, they spent NO time on actually setting up the gear, so the room sounded like horse dung.
...we found the same. The speakers in the demo room were pushed way off into the corners, and practically up against the windows of the hotel room. And they sounded like they looked--a row of tweeters.

His current tube amps are much more straightforward and they do sound very good, and they are very well reviewed. And the colors they are finished in are sumptuous! Since price is no object on these (unlike with Carver Corp., where they were building to a price point), he can voice them the way he wants, and doesn't have to make compromises. From what I understand, he even winds transformers by hand. I don't know if those are in the production versions or if he uses his own windings as prototypes for production, but that's a lot of dedication right there.

But the speakers? Ehhhhh...I'll pass on those.
 
I think what I loved about Bob Carvers stuff was that there was always a sense of fun to what it was doing. Stereo for him was a cool toy, at a time when the hobby was getting more and more stuffy and boring. Plus, his stuff was always realistically priced. Not cheap, but not in the league with the one inch think faceplate guys. There was also a sense of theatre to what he did. Big meters. Funky product names. Totally different approaches. Again, it was fun.

Plus, I’ve had the pleasure of talking and dealing with Bob, and he’s one of the most honourable guys in the industry.

Fun is something that is sadly lacking from the industry now.
Good points all around. I don't want to say he's a genius (maybe he is?), but he certainly knows his way around electronics, and can think outside the box when he's designing something. Not afraid to think "What if..." and then head off to his secret bat cave laboratory to figure it all out. Sure, his Carver Corp. stuff was never "high end," but it served the needs of someone like myself, at that point in time, when I wanted something much better than a typical receiver or integrated amp back in the day. My M500t still sounded better than the Rotel I briefly replaced it with (which I found to be bland, sterile and ran out of power rather easily), but it ultimately developed an odd hum and I moved up the ladder to try some better components.

Some of the younger upstart companies are the ones having fun now--Schiit has a bit of fun with their products, as one example. Or the companies where a second generation has taken over and the young 'uns are running the companies now. I agree--along with the fun having gone out of it, many of the high-end brands have gotten too elite for my taste and my pocketbook. Sure I'd like those new monoblocks (from any company), but when a pair of them cost me what two nice used cars would cost, it's not happening. Even though they are a bit stuffy, though, many of the smaller companies where the founder still shows up at audio shows and talks to customers (like Richard Vandersteen) still lends a welcome human touch to many of these companies.
 
Good points all around. I don't want to say he's a genius (maybe he is?), but he certainly knows his way around electronics, and can think outside the box when he's designing something. Not afraid to think "What if..." and then head off to his secret bat cave laboratory to figure it all out. Sure, his Carver Corp. stuff was never "high end," but it served the needs of someone like myself, at that point in time, when I wanted something much better than a typical receiver or integrated amp back in the day. My M500t still sounded better than the Rotel I briefly replaced it with (which I found to be bland, sterile and ran out of power rather easily), but it ultimately developed an odd hum and I moved up the ladder to try some better components.

Some of the younger upstart companies are the ones having fun now--Schiit has a bit of fun with their products, as one example. Or the companies where a second generation has taken over and the young 'uns are running the companies now. I agree--along with the fun having gone out of it, many of the high-end brands have gotten too elite for my taste and my pocketbook. Sure I'd like those new monoblocks (from any company), but when a pair of them cost me what two nice used cars would cost, it's not happening. Even though they are a bit stuffy, though, many of the smaller companies where the founder still shows up at audio shows and talks to customers (like Richard Vandersteen) still lends a welcome human touch to many of these companies.
I do think the genius thing does apply. It's pretty amazing thr breadth of interesting technologies that he has come out with. And uniquely different products and approaches for different times. The Phase Linear amps were absolute power monsters. The Carver cube was an astonishing piece of technology- any other 200 watt amp at the time was at least, what, 60 lbs? And he did it out of something that would fit in the palm of your hand. Certainly, there was both an element of the mental exercises of a genius, and plain showing off about what he can do. And let's not forget that, at the time, the vast majority of gear, likely well over 90%, was bought on looks and specs. Did the m400 really sound that much worse then some of the receiver wars stuff?
While he did have a showman's flair, and did not lack for ego, he certainly was not afraid to share his thoughts and his views. A lot of the interesting things about the Carver challenge was the stuff that is usually missed by the anti golden ears/measurements only types. Yes, he did no listening when he was tweaking his gear, but it was listening that uncovered the flaws in his nulling technique. Plus, it showed the J Gordon Holt really did have golden ears. And, I admire Bob for admitting that he really didn't get what these guys were listening for until they taught him on the test. And let's not forget, he managed to do the test twice, with totally different amps, and made at least his hand tweaked units basically indistinguishable from the original. That is an incredible feat. Plus, it also did prove that all amps sound different.

The other thing that he has done is show that when he turns his mind to sound quality, he can produce something that sounds as good as anyone else's. One of the knocks he took after the Carver Challenge was the he was only(!) capable of stealing great sound from other amps, instead of making great sounding amps of his own. So doesn't he go and build the Silver Seven, which while somewhat lacking perhaps in practicality (though does anyone really concern themselves about the practicality of a Bugatti Veyron? Yes, it's also just a silly expensive exercise, to show what VW can do.), is a truly tremendous sounding amplifier and comparable to anything of the kind. When his interest turned to sound quality (interesting to say about an audio designer, but there ya go), his later stuff was truly good sounding. I still think the Sunfire is an absolutely stellar quality amp, and one I could have spent the rest of my days enjoying. The tube stuff he has been building are also just really great sounding amps.

I guess in a final defence of Bob, he did introduce a ton of great technology, he did shake up the market, he did adjust to where the market went, and all the stuff he introduced worked. And he has designed a huge assortment of really good sounding gear. If there is ever an audio designer hall of fame, he deserves to get inducted in the first round.

As for Schitt, I agree that they seem to be following the same path. Great equipment, with unique and interesting approaches, all done at a reasonable cost. I'm quite confident that if I was living in the US (importing it into Canada makes buying Schitt gear a pain and an expensive endeavour), rather then the North Star gear, I'd be running a Schiit Yggdrasil as my long term DAC. A friend has one in a lovely sounding and very revealing system, at the Yggy held its own.

As a final thought, based on chats with @Pat McGinty, getting good, or even predictable sound, out of large and complex speakers in hotel rooms is a challenge to say the least, and might even be considered a fools errand. I'd love to hear Bobs latest speakers in a proper room, set up well.
 
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