23 Cars That Have the BEST Resale Value

Actually, if you do research on problems per 100 vehicles and average cost of repair as I did several years ago you can find things like a Toyota Corolla had 80 issues mostly minor at something like $300 average vs Land rover at 229 priblems at $2,600 avg. My friend's dad owned a Volvo 5 cyl and it had a cracked tail light. $800 to replace $5 plastic. He worked in plastics. Took several months to get the part. Same thing. Mercedes has bad designed break rotors. Pads go you need a break job. $2grand versus $200 in a Totota.

Every VW owner I have ever known has said "I'll never buy another VW" with horrible customer service and piss poor reliability. I had my Pontiac Grand am in the shop 11 times in 18 months. My Honda Civic was in once in 4 years and triple the mileage. Probably a reason why Pontiac went tits up. People began to realize that gee these Japanese cars walked all over GM junk and thatvthe German engineering was over engineering and rolling money pits which is why the depreciation is so high. You know you'll need to replace everything in a German car and that the parts will run you six times a comparable Honda or Toyota.
And yet, in Europe, VW is seen as the paragon of reliability and quality.

Your Grand Am was not why the division shut down. The Grand Am was an immensely successful car, and a good car. You build enough of anything and their will be good and bad ones. It was government pressure that caused the demise of Pontiac during the restructuring.
 
And yet, in Europe, VW is seen as the paragon of reliability and quality.

Your Grand Am was not why the division shut down. The Grand Am was an immensely successful car, and a good car. You build enough of anything and their will be good and bad ones. It was government pressure that caused the demise of Pontiac during the restructuring.
The VW you get in Europe wasn't remotely the same one you got in America. The Grand Am was shit and the Lemon-Aid Guide who took surveys of Grand Am owners compiled a list of the problems MOST of the owners reported - and guess what - all 11 issues tens of thousands of owners reported. I bought the stupid pile of crap before I read the book. Gee, 30,000 other people all had early alternator failures, paint peeling issues after 3 years, a page dedicated to all the crappy rattles and squeaks. When the alternator failed - I took it to the GM Dealer and the mechanic said this happens ALL the time. He said it was bad design. You are lucky it went before the warranty - but expect them not to last more than 3 years. What? Yes they put the alternator where the engine heat blows right onto it so they get very hot and burn out. His advice? Don't run the AC and the power windows at the same time. Oh and the power windows failed because they used one cheap motor instead of independent ones on Hondas and Toyotas. So he said they break down every couple of years. Honda Accord my friend has 600,000 km - power windows never failed - she doesn't maintain the car very well either - just goes and goes. batteries and oil changes and tires.

There is also info out there about the percentage of car models still on the road decades later. It ain't the Pontiac Grand Am winning that race that's for sure.
 
The VW you get in Europe wasn't remotely the same one you got in America. The Grand Am was shit and the Lemon-Aid Guide who took surveys of Grand Am owners compiled a list of the problems MOST of the owners reported - and guess what - all 11 issues tens of thousands of owners reported. I bought the stupid pile of crap before I read the book. Gee, 30,000 other people all had early alternator failures, paint peeling issues after 3 years, a page dedicated to all the crappy rattles and squeaks. When the alternator failed - I took it to the GM Dealer and the mechanic said this happens ALL the time. He said it was bad design. You are lucky it went before the warranty - but expect them not to last more than 3 years. What? Yes they put the alternator where the engine heat blows right onto it so they get very hot and burn out. His advice? Don't run the AC and the power windows at the same time. Oh and the power windows failed because they used one cheap motor instead of independent ones on Hondas and Toyotas. So he said they break down every couple of years. Honda Accord my friend has 600,000 km - power windows never failed - she doesn't maintain the car very well either - just goes and goes. batteries and oil changes and tires.

There is also info out there about the percentage of car models still on the road decades later. It ain't the Pontiac Grand Am winning that race that's for sure.

Many of the VWs we got here came from the same factories as the German ones. Every VW product I have owned was German made.

There is nothing unique in the Grand Am to any other GM product. I sold parts for a living for years. Delco alternators were not notably better of worse then what anyone else made. In fact, in the part industry, Delco parts were considered a superior brand.

The rest of what the mechanic said makes no sense at all. What car has an alternator at the exhaust? They are belt driven.

Much of what impacts the number of cars on the road is resale value. People invest into their cars based on what they think they are worth. A silly way to do it, but that's what they do.

And Phil Edmonston knew about as much about cars as Ralph Nader.

I get it. You love to hate your Grand Am. You had one troublesome one. I ran a fleet of them with no notable issues.
 
Well this is good news for me as I abhor the blandness of car colors today. Good to know more colorful cars have less resale value as I buy them used and drive them into the ground...


As a general rule of thumb, neutral colours fare better than chromatic tones like yellow, orange or pink. In North America, these three car colours are your safest bet and won’t put you at a disadvantage when selling your car later on.

  • Silver
  • White
  • Black
I have a silver Lexus RX350
a silver Toyota Tacoma
a silver 3/4 ton GMC
and went crazy and bought a white Honda Ridgeline
 
Many of the VWs we got here came from the same factories as the German ones. Every VW product I have owned was German made.

There is nothing unique in the Grand Am to any other GM product. I sold parts for a living for years. Delco alternators were not notably better of worse then what anyone else made. In fact, in the part industry, Delco parts were considered a superior brand.

The rest of what the mechanic said makes no sense at all. What car has an alternator at the exhaust? They are belt driven.

Much of what impacts the number of cars on the road is resale value. People invest into their cars based on what they think they are worth. A silly way to do it, but that's what they do.

And Phil Edmonston knew about as much about cars as Ralph Nader.

I get it. You love to hate your Grand Am. You had one troublesome one. I ran a fleet of them with no notable issues.
I can't remember specifically what he said but something like the alternator sat behind the motor too close to the engine. So the engine got hot and the radiator blew the heat onto the alternator. This was back in 1994 so I can't quite remember exactly what he was talking about because I was more concerned that the car kept coming back to the dealer. When I said that seemed like a bad design he said not for GM - GM makes money selling alternators.

All we have is statistics - Phil Edmonston actually doesn't need to know anything about cars - all he has to do is take information and compile it. If you sell 100 Grand Ams and 98 people come back and list 7 problems. Then you say okay this model and model year consistently has problem X (let's say the alternator) then it is an issue. If you then poll 100 Honda Civic Owners and zero people complain about problem X (the alternator) then you can say that Honda makes a better alternator or the alternators they buy are better ones. It's not rocket science and it doesn't take a knowledgable car guy.


So these outfits like The Lemon-Aid and CR calculate the statistics and they look at the cars as they age and accumulate data that says perhaps that the Grand Am has an alternator failure at 4 years and 80,000 km 12 times more often than a Honda Civic at the same year and mileage. This is a know a known problem. Even if 12 times more often is still a relatively small overall number. Maybe it affects 25 cars in 100 sold while in the Civic it is 2 times in 100. It still means that a fleet operator who bought 100 cars may only have ten problems but the consumer market may get 50. Knowing they are selling to a fleet they may beef up the part because they want a fleet operator to come back to them in 5 years to buy a new fleet - piss him off and you lose 100 car sales. Piss off some average Joe - so what you lose 1 car sale.

The reason Toyota and Honda became popular certainly wasn't that they looked good. They became popular because people drive their GMs and Fords and Chryslers and got tired of having it in the shop 4 times a year. They begrudgingly bought a dumpy-looking Camry and said geez it's been 9 years and 300,000 miles and I put in oil and bought some tires. I didn't have to replace everything in the car three times.

VW's Golf was ranked as the 11th least reliable car in the UK - The golf is being pulled out of the US market because they are so bad that owners were not coming back to buy another one - Everyone I have met that owned one has nothing good to say about them. Terrible dealer service - your car broke down mam? Well, you obviously don't drive the car properly! The Japanese ate them for lunch and VW couldn't sell the rolling piles of crap a second time. That's the difference - The Honda Civic owner loved his car and after ten years bought another Honda. The VW Golf owner hated the pile of crap and said - this VW is a pile of junk so I'll buy that hideous-looking Honda Civic Hatchback. Besides, when you sit IN the Civic you don't have to look at it LOL. And then he has 1/10th problems can get it fixed the same day because there are a billion parts and the parts don't cost as much. You can learn to love the looks.

VW is pulling the Golf out of the USA - they got killed by the better Japanese and Korean efforts The VW Golf Is Officially Leaving The USA

I agree with you on Delco. My Honda Civic came with a Delco battery which amused me. My Grand Am did not. It came with some no-name-brand battery. Granted my Grand Am was 1 year old when I got it so knowing that pile of crap - it was probably on its third one by the time I got it.

I still think about that Grand Am 1 year old:

- brake pads need replacing at 25k and 50k (apparently the rear brakes never engaged properly so 100% braking on the front wheels)
- power windows failed
- alternator failed
- rattles all over the place
- paint on roof peeling
- passenger seat would fly forward in heavy braking
- accelerating off the line the car would lift up a bit and steer left
- I hit a car from a rolling stop - left the foot off the brake - so very slow-moving. hit a car at less than 4 MPH - the front of the car fell off. $1800 damage. Back in 1994 so $3,600 today
- passenger door stuck closed. Had to be opened from the inside
- Alarm went on and could not be turned off. Granted this was a dealer-installed alarm so probably not the fault of GM - but it was a GM dealer who sold the crappy thing. So...
18 months of ownership

Honda Civic - 4 years 90,000 km stop and go traffic
- glue on the brake handle was a little loose- re-glued.

Original brake pads still had 20% - automatic - stop and go traffic. I wouldn't touch a GM with a 50-foot pole. And all the statistics and mechanics support that. My dad had a Cutlass Supreme - that junk was even worse. V8 with no power. Back windows didn't roll all the way down. It was a comically bad car. Oldsmobile went belly up too. I don't buy the theory they went out of business due to regulations or whatever. They were atrocious and you simply would never buy another one if you bothered to go and drive an Accord. An Accord with better materials, that didn't break and actually handled well and sipped fuel better. I rented an Accord once and thought holy crap our Oldsmobile was total garbage. The Accord was nimble and quick with a 4 banger and the V8 Olds was slow and plodding. Like 20 years behind. And don't get me started on our Dodge Ram V10 or Ford Escort. Oh My....
 
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I can't remember specifically what he said but something like the alternator sat behind the motor too close to the engine. So the engine got hot and the radiator blew the heat onto the alternator. This was back in 1994 so I can't quite remember exactly what he was talking about because I was more concerned that the car kept coming back to the dealer. When I said that seemed like a bad design he said not for GM - GM makes money selling alternators.

All we have is statistics - Phil Edmonston actually doesn't need to know anything about cars - all he has to do is take information and compile it. If you sell 100 Grand Ams and 98 people come back and list 7 problems. Then you say okay this model and model year consistently has problem X (let's say the alternator) then it is an issue. If you then poll 100 Honda Civic Owners and zero people complain about problem X (the alternator) then you can say that Honda makes a better alternator or the alternators they buy are better ones. It's not rocket science and it doesn't take a knowledgable car guy.


So these outfits like The Lemon-Aid and CR calculate the statistics and they look at the cars as they age and accumulate data that says perhaps that the Grand Am has an alternator failure at 4 years and 80,000 km 12 times more often than a Honda Civic at the same year and mileage. This is a know a known problem. Even if 12 times more often is still a relatively small overall number. Maybe it affects 25 cars in 100 sold while in the Civic it is 2 times in 100. It still means that a fleet operator who bought 100 cars may only have ten problems but the consumer market may get 50. Knowing they are selling to a fleet they may beef up the part because they want a fleet operator to come back to them in 5 years to buy a new fleet - piss him off and you lose 100 car sales. Piss off some average Joe - so what you lose 1 car sale.

The reason Toyota and Honda became popular certainly wasn't that they looked good. They became popular because people drive their GMs and Fords and Chryslers and got tired of having it in the shop 4 times a year. They begrudgingly bought a dumpy-looking Camry and said geez it's been 9 years and 300,000 miles and I put in oil and bought some tires. I didn't have to replace everything in the car three times.

VW's Golf was ranked as the 11th least reliable car in the UK - The golf is being pulled out of the US market because they are so bad that owners were not coming back to buy another one - Everyone I have met that owned one has nothing good to say about them. Terrible dealer service - your car broke down mam? Well, you obviously don't drive the car properly! The Japanese ate them for lunch and VW couldn't sell the rolling piles of crap a second time. That's the difference - The Honda Civic owner loved his car and after ten years bought another Honda. The VW Golf owner hated the pile of crap and said - this VW is a pile of junk so I'll buy that hideous-looking Honda Civic Hatchback. Besides, when you sit IN the Civic you don't have to look at it LOL. And then he has 1/10th problems can get it fixed the same day because there are a billion parts and the parts don't cost as much. You can learn to love the looks.

VW is pulling the Golf out of the USA - they got killed by the better Japanese and Korean efforts The VW Golf Is Officially Leaving The USA

I agree with you on Delco. My Honda Civic came with a Delco battery which amused me. My Grand Am did not. It came with some no-name-brand battery. Granted my Grand Am was 1 year old when I got it so knowing that pile of crap - it was probably on its third one by the time I got it.

I still think about that Grand Am 1 year old:

- brake pads need replacing at 25k and 50k (apparently the rear brakes never engaged properly so 100% braking on the front wheels)
- power windows failed
- alternator failed
- rattles all over the place
- paint on roof peeling
- passenger seat would fly forward in heavy braking
- accelerating off the line the car would lift up a bit and steer left
- I hit a car from a rolling stop - left the foot off the brake - so very slow-moving. hit a car at less than 4 MPH - the front of the car fell off. $1800 damage. Back in 1994 so $3,600 today
- passenger door stuck closed. Had to be opened from the inside
- Alarm went on and could not be turned off. Granted this was a dealer-installed alarm so probably not the fault of GM - but it was a GM dealer who sold the crappy thing. So...
18 months of ownership

Honda Civic - 4 years 90,000 km stop and go traffic
- glue on the brake handle was a little loose- re-glued.

Original brake pads still had 20% - automatic - stop and go traffic. I wouldn't touch a GM with a 50-foot pole. And all the statistics and mechanics support that. My dad had a Cutlass Supreme - that junk was even worse. V8 with no power. Back windows didn't roll all the way down. It was a comically bad car. Oldsmobile went belly up too. I don't buy the theory they went out of business due to regulations or whatever. They were atrocious and you simply would never buy another one if you bothered to go and drive an Accord. An Accord with better materials, that didn't break and actually handled well and sipped fuel better. I rented an Accord once and thought holy crap our Oldsmobile was total garbage. The Accord was nimble and quick with a 4 banger and the V8 Olds was slow and plodding. Like 20 years behind. And don't get me started on our Dodge Ram V10 or Ford Escort. Oh My....
I wouldn't even know where to start answering any of that. I can't dismiss what happened to your Grand Am. In my decades in the auto industry, I've seen horrible failures from every manufacturer. You build enough of anything, and some will fail horribly.

The rest of it? I'll be a good host and refrain from commenting.

I will add this. VW overtook Toyota and is now the worlds largest auto manufacturer.
 
I wouldn't even know where to start answering any of that. I can't dismiss what happened to your Grand Am. In my decades in the auto industry, I've seen horrible failures from every manufacturer. You build enough of anything, and some will fail horribly.

The rest of it? I'll be a good host and refrain from commenting.

I will add this. VW overtook Toyota and is now the worlds largest auto manufacturer.
You are right - all car companies have their issues. But I am sure you will agree that German cars have more issues than Toyota and that those issues cost more money when they come up.

VW doesn't sell more cars than Toyota - the VW GROUP is the biggest in the world but that is made up of the following car brands:

VW
Audi
Porsche
Lamborghini
Ducati
Man (big rigs)
Scania
Bently
Skoda
Bugatti
Seat

All combined vs Toyota. Toyota beats each of them individually. Albeit sales numbers don't equate to being better or more reliable. And reliability isn't the only factor in buying a car. Toyota may be more reliable and so might Lexus but that doesn't mean they're fun to drive, look good, are more comfortable, have good technology etc. The Honda Civic Hatchback was way more fun to drive than a Corolla and probably still is. Maybe the Hatchback is a little less reliable but you choose it because it doesn't suck the life out of you when you drive.

Bryston is more reliable than my Audio Note I would bet but so what? I am willing to sacrifice that to get performance. Being a Mustang guy you know that sports cars driven hard on the track will require more output of money in alignments, tires, brakes, etc than some mommy mobile like a Camry that drives slow and steady to Costco and back.

So part of this reliability discussion has to exclude cars that are driven really hard like Civic Type R or WRX or Mustangs. People are lead footing these cars - they are going hard into corners. If owned by young guys maybe they don't do the maintenance in a timely manner like Grandpa. So they are driven hard and cared for less - their reliability score suffers. One of the reasons I bought the Civic Hatchback was because it was mostly young guys buying them and pounding on them. It ranked number 2 at the time behind the granny mobile Tercel. BUT, I felt the Civic was more reliable if you drove it gently because if it scored #2 with all the 16 year olds buying them it would be better if driven gently. That was my same point about the Mustang - still is and why I still would consider one.

If you drive the Mustang as a GT and just drive it like a Camry - as a cruiser and you never take it to a track and you maintain it on time or before time - then my reasoning was the same. Back in the Day it maybe got 3/5 for reliability but that is a very Strong 3 because everyone beats the hell out of them. If you didn't maybe it gets a 4 or 5.

Recently, the Miata 2020 I believe was ranked as the number 1 most reliable car on the road. Again a car people take to the track and drive hard. It's not a fast car but still - people push them to the max. So to score number one when you're slamming it into corners and pushing your foot down all the time is highly impressive. And to get 35mpg on top and with that RF it looks great to me. I wish it was faster. I just think it should be able to beat a Camry 0-60 or 0-100 not get completely left in the dust by grandma. I know 0-60 isn't everything but geez. Still, for the most part apparently they are practically bomb proof, last forever cheap to fix and modify, endless parts for them, stylish, 50-50 weight - people love the things. If I can fit into the damn thing it's first on my list. Mustang GT and Kia Stinger are tied for second.

I apologize - I often get into "for argument sake" mode so it appears like I am advocating for Toyota when in reality I am just advocating for one strength they have which is reliability. Tip my hat to them on that front but there is more to a car than that and if their 86 scores a a 90 and Subaru BRZ scores an 88 and a Honda Type R score scores an 86 and Mustang is an 84 - they're all still "way above average" so then you say - well the Mustang blows them all away 0-100MPH has the best looks which it does by far, has the best sound, which it does by far, and is equal everywhere else then the extra 6 points the Toyota 86 gets for reliability is meaningless when it loses 20 points for performance and 20 points for interior comfort.

And while I suspect Scotty is correct - to be blunt in 2021 how many people are really keeping their cars 400,000 miles? I don't really care all that much if a Toyota will last to 400,000 miles and an equivalent Ford or Mercedes will die at 230,000 miles because for me I would buy a 1-3-year-old car - and probably sell it in 4 years and get another 1-3-year-old car. I prefer not to put money into fixing highly depreciating assets. When you put money into a house it increases the value of a house. If you put money into a car it's thrown down the pit.

Buy a two-year-old Mustang GT - keep it until the extended warranty runs out and sell it. Rinse Repeat. I wish they had a sunroof or a Miata folding hardtop. I love the look of that Miata RF.
 
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My experience on all of this has been so hit or miss that I just don't trust much of the info out there. Everybody has an agenda and, especially online, that agenda is clicks and you get clicks through controversy and drama.

My experience with the VW group echoes the comments about unreliability but my info is dated.... A '99 Golf/GTI and 2004 Audi A4 Quattro 3.0, both of which were fun to drive mistresses who'd stab you in the back as soon as you turned around. Almost laughably problematic.

BUT, my current car is German, a 2013 Mercedes C300, and it's been a wonderful car for 100,000 miles, knock on every piece of wood nearby. My 2000 BMW Z3 has been a joy with only the expected age-related issues any 20 year old car has.

I've also owned American cars that were wonderful. And American cars that were crap.

Most broad opinions are bullshit - that's the only statement I'll standby. Life is more nuances and every instance of experience has important context that is often left out. Universal experiences simply don't exist, though I do admit that stereotypes for things often have a basis in truth, such as with my VW experience. I will never buy another VW group product again. Twice bitten thrice shy.
 
My experience on all of this has been so hit or miss that I just don't trust much of the info out there. Everybody has an agenda and, especially online, that agenda is clicks and you get clicks through controversy and drama.

My experience with the VW group echoes the comments about unreliability but my info is dated.... A '99 Golf/GTI and 2004 Audi A4 Quattro 3.0, both of which were fun to drive mistresses who'd stab you in the back as soon as you turned around. Almost laughably problematic.

BUT, my current car is German, a 2013 Mercedes C300, and it's been a wonderful car for 100,000 miles, knock on every piece of wood nearby. My 2000 BMW Z3 has been a joy with only the expected age-related issues any 20 year old car has.

I've also owned American cars that were wonderful. And American cars that were crap.

Most broad opinions are bullshit - that's the only statement I'll standby. Life is more nuances and every instance of experience has important context that is often left out. Universal experiences simply don't exist, though I do admit that stereotypes for things often have a basis in truth, such as with my VW experience. I will never buy another VW group product again. Twice bitten thrice shy.

A lot goes back to what I mentioned earlier and some basic common sense. Scotty Kilmer noted that someone who buys a 4 cyl Mustang is less likely to be taking it to the track or driving it as hard as a guy who buys a V8. So the car is likely to have been driven easier and could be a better second-hand purchase. Other than the fact that he doesn't like the eco-boost engined. But It makes sense.

I looked at the Ecoboost initially because I would not be a track guy and just want a comfortable highway cruising car that looked good. My reasoning is sound on the V8 GT version is that it would be far more reliable if it is driven more or less like a Camry. A Camry isn't going to hold up with lead-footed Mustang owners if those guys floor it off every line and race around a track.

I suppose the logic is that if you are buying $90,000 luxury cars or sports cars you have plenty of money to fix them. The problem is a lot of people (maybe most people) buy cars they can't really afford. Pretty much anyone who takes out more than a 48month loan is buying something they probably shouldn't. So when the warranty runs out they are still making payments and if the engine or transmission blows up they might have to fork out $6,000 when most Americans can't cover more than a $400 emergency. Reliability and repair costs then matter a lot.

When I return to Canada I will be essentially retired and I don't want to be bogged down by a car sucking my money too much. That's why I have asked about warranties etc.

I also look at things like the Supra - BMW apparently makes rock-solid engines so does Mercedes and the Supra has the BMW strengths - the engine and infotainment combined with Toyota reliability and it was exciting to me. But it's a bit pricey - I could do it but I'd rather put the money into my stereo. Anyway - it's a ways off for me 6-8 more years here and a lot can change in the car industry by then. But I will know a lot about the changes in model years from now until I buy.

I like Sarah's reviews - quirky and weird.

 
I don't know why exactly this thread popped in my mind again today, perhaps because both of my cars are German (and my last car was Japanese). But I was thinking about reliability, especially as it relates to the German cars I've had.

You have to approach the car you own with the mindset and culture of the place it was built/engineered in mind. A German car is going to have different needs than a Japanese or American car. Just like my South American wife can't be approached and interacted with in the same way as my Pakistani ex girlfriend I had around before her.

German car companies, especially the luxury ones, expect their cars to be maintained. They expect routine maintenance. Their tolerances and overall build isn't meant to just be left to its own devices. They don't build for how most people behave, they build for how they -expect- people to behave. So if you approach a Mercedes like a Honda, it'll bite you in the ass. And yet many do and then they complain about costly repairs because something got out of hand from being run without routine care. But I would argue that when in maintained shape, the Mercedes is as reliable or more, and might just be a more-fun drive. My daily driver is a 2013 C300, and I absolutely love that car, so I'm biased. Its also been the most reliable car I have ever owned, but also the most costly as far as routine maintenance. It's not a Honda.
 
I don't know why exactly this thread popped in my mind again today, perhaps because both of my cars are German (and my last car was Japanese). But I was thinking about reliability, especially as it relates to the German cars I've had.

You have to approach the car you own with the mindset and culture of the place it was built/engineered in mind. A German car is going to have different needs than a Japanese or American car. Just like my South American wife can't be approached and interacted with in the same way as my Pakistani ex girlfriend I had around before her.

German car companies, especially the luxury ones, expect their cars to be maintained. They expect routine maintenance. Their tolerances and overall build isn't meant to just be left to its own devices. They don't build for how most people behave, they build for how they -expect- people to behave. So if you approach a Mercedes like a Honda, it'll bite you in the ass. And yet many do and then they complain about costly repairs because something got out of hand from being run without routine care. But I would argue that when in maintained shape, the Mercedes is as reliable or more, and might just be a more-fun drive. My daily driver is a 2013 C300, and I absolutely love that car, so I'm biased. Its also been the most reliable car I have ever owned, but also the most costly as far as routine maintenance. It's not a Honda.
@JohnVF, Great thread, I'm just curious, are you using a MB dealer for routine service, as you said it was pricey or did some piece fail? I recently had to pick up a friend from the Lexus dealer, he dropped off a '08 ES 350, essentially a Camry clone with better leather, new alternator, battery, brakes and oil change, $2200, (car has 125K miles, bought new). Initially, it was sticker shock for me, but I guess in a major urban area, this is normal in this day and age.
Also, I wanted to concur with the PM's observation about infrastructure for the transistion to electric's, along with people's resistance to any change.
I recently purchased a new car (Escape) and while signing the paperwork they were unloading a 2022 Mach 1. List was $58,000 with a markup of $7,000. It sold before I was able to get out the door. The dealer had 4 Mach E's (very nice by the way) on the lot, asking list and willing to deal, hadn't moved one in a week. I don't know what this mean's, but I think it's going to take a while to move the needle on the future of personal transportation.
 
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