604e owners help convince me

[Shindogreen]

I know there are a lot of 604 owners here so I'm asking for a bit of help. I picked up a pair of 604e's this week hoping they might be a solution to my problem. (see below). The cabinets they came in are not optimal, the stock crossovers were said to be rebuilt but there is only 10 inches of wire coming out of them.
I have no idea if the port size is correct. The cabinets are a little over 11 cubic feet and obviously used for something else prior. And they are filled with furniture foam.The sound is a bit dark, and while I can hear hints of promise, they just aren't doing much for me. This is the first time I've listened to duplex models btw and they sound a little too hifi for my liking.

I currently own Altec Flamencos with mast mutter crossovers. They are driven by 10 watts of single ended pentode. I know everyone hates the 811 horn and I can hear that it can be a bit phasey and it's not the greatest imager, but overall I'm pleased. They can sound intimate like you ar listening to the other end of the microphone cable. They can swell with music. They make music fun to listen to. But..and there is always a but right? There just isn't enough bottom end. I really don't want to add a sub.

I am trying to decide if I should move forward with new cabinets and crossovers but I can't really hear into the future. So I wanted to ask what you like about the 604's. Is it just that they are efficient? Is it the sound staging? The drama and color? That's not something that I'm hearing right now. I want to hear why they are the speaker that so many of you say you will never sell.

 

[analog.distractions]

I don’t have the history or experience of some folks around here, but I’ll get us started on what I like about my 604-8g.

Sound-wise, they have a presence and immediacy I haven’t found in other speakers. Bass and treble are adequate but it’s really about the mids. They excel on any type of acoustic, voice, jazz, blues, even electronic music. However, they aren’t speakers you’re going to rock out with. They can also be ruthless with poor recordings. Efficiency is a bonus allowing you to use some great tube amps, like the 45 that I’m really fond of.

Your cabinets look like a taller/larger version of the 620, which is what I have mine in. You might start by removing some of the foam and seeing if that helps some of the darkness you’re hearing. I landed on 1/2” wool felt on 3 opposing sides (as recommended in a few places). From there you could experiment with crossover updates if you want.

If you have the room for them they can be a lot of fun. Just take care in setting them up and matching with the right gear and you’ll be good.

 

[Fran604g]

I know there are a lot of 604 owners here so I'm asking for a bit of help. I picked up a pair of 604e's this week hoping they might be a solution to my problem. (see below). The cabinets they came in are not optimal, the stock crossovers were said to be rebuilt but there is only 10 inches of wire coming out of them.
I have no idea if the port size is correct. The cabinets are a little over 11 cubic feet and obviously used for something else prior. And they are filled with furniture foam.The sound is a bit dark, and while I can hear hints of promise, they just aren't doing much for me. This is the first time I've listened to duplex models btw and they sound a little too hifi for my liking.

I currently own Altec Flamencos with mast mutter crossovers. They are driven by 10 watts of single ended pentode. I know everyone hates the 811 horn and I can hear that it can be a bit phasey and it's not the greatest imager, but overall I'm pleased. They can sound intimate like you ar listening to the other end of the microphone cable. They can swell with music. They make music fun to listen to. But..and there is always a but right? There just isn't enough bottom end. I really don't want to add a sub.

I am trying to decide if I should move forward with new cabinets and crossovers but I can't really hear into the future. So I wanted to ask what you like about the 604's. Is it just that they are efficient? Is it the sound staging? The drama and color? That's not something that I'm hearing right now. I want to hear why they are the speaker that so many of you say you will never sell.

I'm of the opinion that cabinet size is critical. I have no experience with the E series, but with the G, for me it's the presence and subjective reality of the recording that impresses me. They can be a bit "horney" sounding without taming the HF crossover point with a good xover design. There are members here who've opined the E as the best sounding 604 produced. I however can't.

 

[Audionut]

I am a very happy 604E owner and agree with what @analog.distractions noted as pro’s & con’s for the 604’s. And would add that you should sort out what the crossovers are first; I had a wire or two crossed on my markwart crossovers and my speakers were uninspiring to say the least. I fixed the wiring issue and as they burned in, voila!

Then, move onto the cabinets (removing/swapping insulation). I have 9 cubic foot cab’s and couldn’t quite coax enough bass from them (only necessary if you also listen to modern music), so I added subs. You may not have to with these larger cabinets, and even though they aren’t permanent, you can get an idea of what that size does for those drivers.

As far as the sound, I think they are more than bright enough and don’t need super tweeters, but not all ears hear the same. They throw a big soundstage, pinpoint imaging, snappy/quick bass, and the midrange; it is what these speaker do better than any speaker I’ve ever heard... Pair them with low watt tube amps and prepare to let the sound bask over you.

 

[rogerfederer]

i love mine; listening to them now. super clear, detailed. i'm using helper woofers crossed in pretty low. tons of threads re this...

 

[Mr. Widget]

This is the first time I've listened to duplex models btw and they sound a little too hifi for my liking.

What does too hi-fi mean to you?

I want to hear why they are the speaker that so many of you say you will never sell.

I imagine if you have to ask the question, then you will be passing these along sooner or later. But the answer is... the mids.

 

[Shindogreen]

What does too hi-fi mean to you?

Let me try to explain with a recent experience. I helped my future son in law put together a starter system. He ended up with Vandersteen 2's and a newer british integrated. To him it sounds wonderful, To me it sounds like all the audiophile bullet points were met (sound staging, detail, etc, etc) but in no way did it sound like real music. I can't escape the reality and let my brain fooled into thinking there are instruments being played in front of me.
Does that make any sense at all?

 

[Mr. Widget]

Let me try to explain...

Ok, to me that typically means there is a lack of dynamics. I get that. There are plenty of excellent systems out there that are accurate, wide frequency response range, and image well, but they don't conjure the felling of real music being played.

I get that, but I'm surprised that you would put the 604s in that category.

 

[mhardy6647]

Wait, what?
Lack of dynamics with 604Es? hmmm... something is amiss.
Gary Kaufman (who's a bit of an Altec fan himself) heard mine (SE 2A3 amplification, MasteringLabs XOs and "Billfort" cabinets) many years ago after an NEARC swapmeet (back when the latter was in Westborough, MA) and commented that, as befits Altecs, they mainfested that effortless Altec sound.

Which they should.

 

[rogerfederer]

right now you are trying to evaluate them with mystery crossovers (with maybe aged components), mystery cabinets and maybe they are still waking up from a deep sleep. if you don't have the time $ or inclination to mess with them no worries.

 

[mhardy6647]

Crossovers are definitely important. I know that sounds trite, but it's quite true. E.g., the Duplexes have a reputation for being bright and even shouty. I suspect (?!?) that they could be, with stock Altec XOs. I can only vouch for 604Es, but with the Masteing Labs XOs, they are smoooooooooooooooth. Indeed (and this may or may not follow directly), but they are capable of nigh-on real sounding reproduction of piano. I have heard few if any other loudspeakers that can do that.

 

[Mr. Widget]

Yes the design of the crossover is super important. The condition also matters, but most of these vintage designs have actually help up well... they may never have been great, but they are often still well within spec.

 

[Tom Brennan]

I like 811 horn. There are better ones but it's good. And after all it was used in the Model 19, one of the best turnkey, hook it up and listen to it speakers ever.

My 604Es sounded great with a simple DIY textbook 1st order 1500hz crossover and the 30923 EQ circuit. Piece of cake.

 

[mhardy6647]

bonus points for the clip leads, @Tom Brennan!
That's where the magic lies.
😎

Full disclosure:
I am currently running not the 604Es but 515Bs with 802Ds on top of them (with EMILAR EH500-2 horns and throat adaptors) -- essentially deconstructed 604s. My only beef with the Duplexes was the small sweet spot, so off I went. I mention this only because, given encouragement by @Topper, I am using first order XOs on those drivers (ca. 600 Hz). So, yeah, re: first order XO.

 

[Tom Brennan]

bonus points for the clip leads, @Tom Brennan!
That's where the magic lies.
😎

As we said in the boilermaker trade, they're workwise.

 

[mhardy6647]

Tremendous flexibility.

 

[kcdonahue]

maybe they are still waking up from a deep sleep

Maybe it's all in my head, but my 604D sound a bit off after not being used for a few months. After a good bit of exercise they get right back in the game. This may also be due to the fact that they were rebuilt using non original curvilinear cones with a heaping coating of damping materials to tame them...

Ok, it's not in my head. I'm able to measure the difference with my DATS V3 very easily.

KC

 

[Thermionics]

Crossovers are definitely important. I know that sounds trite, but it's quite true. E.g., the Duplexes have a reputation for being bright and even shouty. I suspect (?!?) that they could be, with stock Altec XOs. I can only vouch for 604Es, but with the Masteing Labs XOs, they are smoooooooooooooooth. Indeed (and this may or may not follow directly), but they are capable of nigh-on real sounding reproduction of piano. I have heard few if any other loudspeakers that can do that.

I second this option of the 604E / Mastering Lab crossover (in a suitably voluminous cabinet). The only speaker I’ve heard that might have it beat in the midrange while maintaining that Altec effortlessness, is the @je2a3 753c Altec 2-way.

I’m also going to disagree with the ‘604E’s can’t rock’ opinion. They most certainly can. I am currently listening to King Gizzard and the Lizard Wizard's Omnium Gatherum, which is musically all over the place (including metal and psych rock). These speakers can boogie.

 

[Shindogreen]

right now you are trying to evaluate them with mystery crossovers (with maybe aged components), mystery cabinets and maybe they are still waking up from a deep sleep. if you don't have the time $ or inclination to mess with them no worries.

I'm trying to get a sense of what they should sound like. I have no experience with them and that's why I'm asking. I have nothing but inclination. Probably way too much inclination.

 

[Shindogreen]

Crossovers are definitely important. I know that sounds trite, but it's quite true. E.g., the Duplexes have a reputation for being bright and even shouty. I suspect (?!?) that they could be, with stock Altec XOs. I can only vouch for 604Es, but with the Masteing Labs XOs, they are smoooooooooooooooth. Indeed (and this may or may not follow directly), but they are capable of nigh-on real sounding reproduction of piano. I have heard few if any other loudspeakers that can do that.

Thank you...that's helpful