A new, old, surprisingly good cart.

[JohnVF]

So, I’m a big fan of MM carts from near the end of the vinyl era. Yes, I also play with LOMC (occasionally even somewhat fancy ones) but I feel that MM carts have a neutral/natural character that I just connect with more. Well, some of them at least. Plus it’s been my experience that finding one that tracks extremely well is easier than finding a MC that tracks as well. Anyway, I don’t mean to start a MM vs MC war, I’m currently happily running both.

I just wanted to give a shout out to an extremely fine cart that I recently acquired. As in, it arrived a few hours ago.

I’ve long been a fan of the Stanton 881/981. And towards the end of vinyl’s supremacy they came out with a line of lighter carts with more modern looking bodies that were really the tail end of the journey they (and Pickering) had been on. The Epoch series.

I’ve been looking for one for ages (that wasn’t insanely priced). There’s four in the line. The top is a low-Z, low output, design that needs a head amp. The LZ8s. A sort of MM for MC fans. Yes I still want one of those but good luck finding one.

The next down, the HZ8s is higher output, with Stanton’s third gen stereohedron stylus, with a compliance for light arms.

The third down, the Hz7s, has a slightly earlier stereohedron stylus profile, and has a compliance for medium weight arms.

There’s also a HZ6s and …I don’t know what sets that one apart. Sorry. They’re all rumored to be excellent carts.

All that setup behind us …I recently found a NOS HZ8s Epoch II on eBay and won a sniping war against apparently the only other human who’s been stalking these carts. Apologies to you, whoever you are. I -really- wanted it.

Firstly-it works! You never know with these old fragile things. Second, it does appear to really be unused new old stock. Awesome! Third: The surprise of surprises ..Stanton wasn’t lying about compliance. I bought it to hopefully work on my Empire, and it sounds WONDERFUL. Fresh out of the box it appears to have been sitting in for 40 years, it is singing.

It’s tracking wonderfully on an arm that, while medium-heavy, has great bearings. I’m quite surprised by how well it’s behaving, tracking cleanly at around 1.2g.

It sounds natural, without sounding boring. It’s tonally colorful and compete. It’s detailed without sounding exaggerated. The fairly fine stylus profile wasn’t a bear to set up on an admittedly somewhat-crude arm. There’s no sibilance (prayers answered…).

I actually bought this for another table, not thinking this pairing would work but? Yeah, let’s play a few more records….



It’s nice to roll the dice and win sometimes.

 

[S0und Dragon]

Nice acquisition!

 

[240sx4u]

Nice looking unit there.

 

[JohnVF]

Nice looking unit there.

(Blushes).

It looks funny on the Empire. The eras are clashing.

 

[240sx4u]

(Blushes).

It looks funny on the Empire. The eras are clashing.

View attachment 73260

Kinda reminds me or Rick Moranis' face inside the helmet he wore for spaceballs.


But it sounds good right? Success.

 

[JohnVF]

Kinda reminds me or Rick Moranis' face inside the helmet he wore for spaceballs.


But it sounds good right? Success.

Yeah that’s a good analogy.

I still might put the Cello-Miyabi lomc back here. But for the time being this is working so much better than assumed (I bought it for the Merrill table yo free up the Cello for the Empire).

 

[240sx4u]

Yeah that’s a good analogy.

I still might put the Cello-Miyabi lomc back here. But for the time being this is working so much better than assumed (I bought it for the Merrill table yo free up the Cello for the Empire).

Sounds like you're going to be stocking up!

 

[JohnVF]

I often get into situations where the assumptions but up against reality. And this is another one of those moments.

Looking at the Empire arm, it shouts Bethlehem Steel. The mid century might of American manufacturing where things were BIG and things were HEAVY.

And so I've just kind of assumed that it wants a lower compliance cart, despite the Empire literature that brags about it being able to track a high-compliance cart a .25g. And despite Empire's own carts, like the 1000 z/ex that's contemporary to this arm, being relatively high compliance...and designed, obviously, to work with, and be sold with, their own turntables.

The last cart on this table was a DL-103 retyped with an elliptical stylus. It sucked. I just could not get it to track cleanly.

My Cello Chorale LOMC, also somewhat lower compliance... it works. But it loses something on this table.

What carts have worked best? The previously mentioned Empire 1000 z/ex, a Shure V-15vmr (with the brush down), and This Stanton Epoch Hz7. All carts that assumptions say should -not- work well on this arm...just by looking at it.

But using the arm is a different story. It's dynamically balanced...a sort of clock-spring in the arm applies downforce. I have it set at around 1.1g right now, and lifting the arm... it feels light as a feather. The bearings are fantastic.

Maybe they knew what they were doing....

 

[theflattire]

Nice.
I'm a fan of vintage carts.

 

[Thermionics]

Kinda reminds me or Rick Moranis' face inside the helmet he wore for spaceballs.


But it sounds good right? Success.

"No sir! I didn't see you playing with your dolls again!"

 

[jblnut]

Deli would be proud

 

[JohnVF]

Deli would be proud

He’d hate that I passed up a cheap JVC QL7 with his beloved TT71 drive yesterday, though.

 

[JohnVF]

The sound of this cart really makes me shake my head. Why are some things, including some carts that are in my opinion extremely mediocre, talked about ENDLESSLY, while some true gems like this Stanton almost completely forgotten to time?

I get that it came at the end of vinyl's heyday. I get that it was from 1985, when all the 'cool' stuff was from the 1970s.

But this thing is just hands down superior to so many other carts I've had.

 

[Tables_and_Tubes]

I knew that I had seen that cartridge somewhere



Would like to give one a spin, going to keep my eyes open. Nice find!!

Dan

 

[S0und Dragon]

That’s how I feel about my beloved Acutex cart. Damned cart has no business sounding as good as it does. It doesn’t get much play as I am on my last OEM stylus. And the one I had retipped lost a lot of its charm in the retip.

 

[JohnVF]

That’s how I feel about my beloved Acutex cart. Damned cart has no business sounding as good as it does. It doesn’t get much play as I am on my last OEM stylus. And the one I had retipped lost a lot of its charm in the retip.

I’ve not heard one of those. I need to put it on my list of top old MMs to explore.

 

[S0und Dragon]

I wouldn’t mind owning a good clean example of the better Signet carts. A nice TK7 or such.

 

[JohnVF]

I wouldn’t mind owning a good clean example of the better Signet carts. A nice TK7 or such.

I have a TK3 that I put an AT line contact stylus on, supposedly making it similar to a TK7? The later of the TK7s anyway. Maybe they had a fancier cantilever. Either way it’s a nice cart, like a fuller sounding AT-150.

 

[Rudy]

Either way it’s a nice cart, like a fuller sounding AT-150.

I've read that the AT150 can sound thin, and I've personally heard a brand new 440MLA sound thin as well (after I set it up for a buddy). I heard that the key to taming these down was to add parallel resistance to bring the load down. Not sure what the target was, but I'm thinking 22kΩ?

It could be as simple as using one of these:



...and using a handful of these, in pairs:



...with the correct resistance value inside, wired hot to ground. Plug it into the Y adapter and voilá. I suppose one could get fancy with an outboard box using a six-position switch or DIP switches to add in the resistance but usually, a couple of experimental loading changes would nail the value needed, and avoid all the unwanted extra wiring and switch contacts.

 

[JohnVF]

I've read that the AT150 can sound thin, and I've personally heard a brand new 440MLA sound thin as well (after I set it up for a buddy). I heard that the key to taming these down was to add parallel resistance to bring the load down. Not sure what the target was, but I'm thinking 22kΩ?

It could be as simple as using one of these:

View attachment 73301

...and using a handful of these, in pairs:

View attachment 73302

...with the correct resistance value inside, wired hot to ground. Plug it into the Y adapter and voilá. I suppose one could get fancy with an outboard box using a six-position switch or DIP switches to add in the resistance but usually, a couple of experimental loading changes would nail the value needed, and avoid all the unwanted extra wiring and switch contacts.

I wasn't really a fan of my AT-150mlx so perhaps that would have helped...but the Signet/AT combo-cart balanced that out.

Honestly I usually solve these kind of things by reaching for another cart. I have very little patience for a cart that I have to fight to get good sound of. Like the DL-103 with an elliptical re-tip I recently got... I managed to get it to sound ok, but ok wasn't cutting it. Into the box it went, with another notch on the "should have listened to my gut" post.