Almost done futzing with my 846a Valencia's

jimreeves

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Roughly two weeks ago I snatched these Val's from the second owner, no grills, bases shot but the cabinets and internals seemed fine, gotta quick demo to make sure all was functioning, then jammed them in the back of my little Mazda 3 hatch (yeah they fit). Never had real horn speakers til now, I was perfectly fine with my modded Infinity Quantum LS's. In person I was surprised how squat and fat these suckers are! i read up all the threads I could find here and elsewhere, downloaded all the vintage Altec literature I could and set about to make them work in my second listening room.
For starters...
From what I gathered and from initial listening they had all the dynamics anyone could crave but were a little weak on the bottom and the top. If I sat on the floor the horns were great, maybe a tad short on top end twinkle. Couldn't wrap my head around why Altec set them so low to the ground (were people shorter in the 60's? I should know I lived there too!) and in the process made the lovely cabinets shy of the cubic feet they needed.
Here we go, again...

I love to work with wood, and to be honest I needed another project more than I needed another pair of speakers (but they're so lovely, and need a new home!) so I set about building new bases for them. So why not bop two birds with one stone and incorporate another 1.5 cubes to the volume while I'm at it? Mind you, all this was done on my back porch or in my dining room when it rained. Good thing WAF isn't an issue here (my GF has no say in matters of Hifi).
Boxes...
The base boxes are two layers of 3/4 birch ply with walnut veneer applied and stained with Minwax Mahogany gel stain. I used the same on the baffles of my Infinity's last year and it's a pretty close match. They're 25 1/2 inches wide, 16 1/2 inches deep and 9 inches high, so 1 1/2 inches set back and recessed 1 inch at bottom to sorta hide the nifty collapsable casters. They don't really collapse, a fixed polymer foot protrudes with the turn of a thumb wheel to raise the caster wheel off the floor when you have them where you want them. Overall the new bases bring the Val's to 40 inches tall so I can stare at the horn throats and add 1.5 cubic feet to the insides.
Guts...
The 16 ohm drivers (806a's, 416-16z's), original crossovers and pots all work like new and I've decided to leave them alone. The 416 cones seem quite dry but the surrounds are still tacky. I did remove the bug screens from the 806a CDs after reading that they might muffle things a little and I can say it didn't hurt any.
Adding the twinkle...
So I understand what others have said, the horns could use a little extra poop on top. I already had a half dozen of these little 8 ohm planar tweeters from something or other I once planned and forgot about, so I thought why not put a series pair in each cabinet with a simple 2nd order butterworth filter? Couldn't think of a reason why not, so that's what those are in the after picture. They're crossed at 12K Hz and not as sensitive as the horns, but despite that (and that my HF hearing is crap) I can and do hear some extra sparkle. I like it!
Kick in the butt...
You'll see a M&K V125 subwoofer in the after picture. To date I haven't used it with them, I'm waiting for a replacement sub amp so it can make noise. I have another pair of M&K V75 subs in the main system but haven't felt the need to hook them in with the Altecs. Everything I've thrown at the Val's so far has great bass, and if the bass is deep and strong in the recording I'm hearing already. I'll try the sub once it's ready, but if it can't keep up with the 416's I'll be just fine with the bass. I find it very punchy and visceral as it is.
Wrap it up will ya???
I really, truly LOVE the way these sound! I just have this silly little hybrid tube-adjacent integrated amp from Dayton Audio running them and they sound WONDERFUL. Quite different than my Quantums and bonus points for not needing 100 wpc to wake up! Yeah, they would probably sound loads better with a Conrad Johnson or some such, but frankly my ears at this late date are the most limiting factor in the mix. I know this is the honeymoon phase but I think we'll have a long and happy ever after!
THE END.
Jim

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Great job! They look as if they would have came that way from the factory, you start to wonder why they didn’t design them that way to begin with! :)
 
Great job! They look as if they would have came that way from the factory, you start to wonder why they didn’t design them that way to begin with! :)
Interesting question. I see they made a matching console to go iwth them early on. They also lost the table tops with the 846b's. The times they were a changin'.
I have half grills cut, just waiting on the funky fabric to come from parts express along with the goodies for 30923 circuits, although I don't think I'll need them. Maybe it's my old ears but the Val's don't strike me as horny in any way.
Re: grills, I'm not sure if I'll use them much. My Quantums look much better without. I liked the look f the originals, wish I could'a snagged them too
Thanks BTW.
 
Roughly two weeks ago I snatched these Val's from the second owner, no grills, bases shot but the cabinets and internals seemed fine, gotta quick demo to make sure all was functioning, then jammed them in the back of my little Mazda 3 hatch (yeah they fit). Never had real horn speakers til now, I was perfectly fine with my modded Infinity QuantumLS's. In person I was surprised how squat and fat these suckers are! Read up all the threads I could find here and elsewhere, downloaded all the vintage Altec literature I could and set about to make them work in my second listening room.
For starters...
From what I gathered and from initial listening they had all the dynamics anyone could crave but were a little weak on the bottom and the top. If I sat on the floor the horns were great, maybe a tad short on top end tinkle. Couldn't wrap my head around why Altec set them so low to the ground (were people shorter in the 60's? I should know I lived there too!) and in the process made the lovely cabinets shy of the cubic feet they needed.
Here we go, again...

I love to work with wood, and to be honest I needed another project more than I needed another pair of speakers (but they're so lovely, and need a new home!) so I set about to building new bases for them. So why not bop two birds with one stone and incorporate another 1.5 cubes to the volume while I'm at it? Mind you, all this was done on my back porch or in my dining room when it rained. Good thing WAF isn't an issue here (my GF has no say in matters of Hifi).
Boxes...
The base boxes are two layers of 3/4 birch ply with walnut veneer applied and stained with Minwax Mahogany gel stain. I used the same on the baffles of my Infinity's last year and it's a pretty close match. 25 1/2 inches wide, 16 1/2 inches deep and 9 inches high, so 1 1/2 inches set back and recessed 1 inch at bottom to sorta hide the nifty collapsable casters. They don't really collapse, a fixed polymer foot protrudes with the turn of a thumb wheel to raise the caster wheel off the floor when you have them where you want them. Overall the new bases bring the Val's to 40 inches tall so I can stare at the horn throats and add 1.5 cubic feet to the insides.
Guts...
The 16 ohm drivers (806a's, 416-16z's), original crossovers and pots all work like new and I've decided to leave them alone. The 416 cones seem quite dry but the surrounds are still tacky. I did remove the bug screens from the 806a CDs after reading that they might muffle things a little and I can say it didn't hurt any.
Adding the tinkle factor...
So I understand what others have said, the horns could use a little extra poop on top. I already had a half dozen of these little 8 ohm planar tweeters from something or other I once planned and forgot about, so I thought why not put a series pair in each cabinet with a simple 2nd order butterworth filter? Couldn't think of a reason why not, so that's what those are in the after picture. They're crossed at 12K Hz and not as sensitive as the horns, but despite that (and that my HF hearing is crap) I can and do hear some extra sparkle. I like it!
Kick in the butt...
You'll see a M&K V125 subwoofer in the after picture. To date I haven't used it with them, I'm waiting for a replacement sub amp so it can make noise. I have another pair of M&K V75 subs in the main system but haven't felt the need to hook them in with the Altecs. Everything I've thrown at the Val's so far has great bass, and if the bass is deep and strong in the recording I'm hearing already. I'll try the sub once it's ready, but if it can't keep up with the 416's I'll be just fine with the bass. I find it very punchy and visceral as it is.
Wrap it up will ya???
I really, truly LOVE the way these sound! I just have this silly little hybrid tube-adjacent integrated amp from Dayton Audio running them and they sound WONDERFUL. Quite different than my Quantums and bonus points for not needing 100 wpc to wake up! Yeah, they would probably sound loads better with a Conrad Johnson or some such, but frankly my ears at this late date are the most limiting factor in the mix. I know this is the honeymoon phase but I think we'll have a long and happy ever after!
THE END.
Jim

View attachment 81482 View attachment 81483 View attachment 81484

That is a really nice looking setup.

I can believe the Valencias sound wonderful with that Dayton Audio amp. No qualifications needed.

Have fun.

Snade
 
Job well done! Valencia’s are really great speakers but as you mention, getting them up off the ground a bit helps clean up the LF a bit as well as puts the horns closer to ear level.

I really like the approach you’ve taken. Looks factory.

Would love to hear more about that turntable…
 
I started this thread with "Almost". Now that I've gotten this far I'm wondering, should I have added internal bracing to the cabinets (beyond what Altec did when they were made)? While they sound perfectly fine to me I can certainly feel the vibration of the cabinets with my hands laid upon them at anything more than the lowest volume. Should I expect this, i.e. was it intended by the designers?
I watched that youtube video where the old guy doubled the baffle thickness and added 50 pounds of lead shot to the bottom of his Val's...seems crazy to me. Where would you draw the line?
 
At a certain point it probably makes more sense to purchase Model 19s. Or find more contemporary drivers and develop a more inert cab


On the other hand, who gives a shit, might as well try it
 
I started this thread with "Almost". Now that I've gotten this far I'm wondering, should I have added internal bracing to the cabinets (beyond what Altec did when they were made)? While they sound perfectly fine to me I can certainly feel the vibration of the cabinets with my hands laid upon them at anything more than the lowest volume. Should I expect this, i.e. was it intended by the designers?
I watched that youtube video where the old guy doubled the baffle thickness and added 50 pounds of lead shot to the bottom of his Val's...seems crazy to me. Where would you draw the line?
It is a slippery slope but a personal choice for sure! One could easily over-damp a cabinet and change the recipe with which it was created/voiced(?) I can’t imagine Lansing or later Altec engineers concerning themselves too much with cabinet noise. I mean they went from plywood to particle board (maybe a bean counter move) and I don’t see bass heads lining up to install 416’s in their trunks in MDF cabinets. Then there are those that swear by mass loading with garden pavers so…
All this to say that if it sounds good to you, Nike! (Do it…or don’t?)
 
I started this thread with "Almost". Now that I've gotten this far I'm wondering, should I have added internal bracing to the cabinets (beyond what Altec did when they were made)? While they sound perfectly fine to me I can certainly feel the vibration of the cabinets with my hands laid upon them at anything more than the lowest volume. Should I expect this, i.e. was it intended by the designers?
I watched that youtube video where the old guy doubled the baffle thickness and added 50 pounds of lead shot to the bottom of his Val's...seems crazy to me. Where would you draw the line?
If it sounds perfectly fine to you, what else really matters?
Enjoy :BananaGuit
 
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