Altec 12/15 'alternative'...

So, I happened upon a pair of unbranded Emilar eh800 'bowtie' horns recently for damn near nothing. I'm looking for some ec175 drivers for them now, and would like to use them with a decent 12 or 15 in a two way setup.

I would like the woofer to be as efficient as possible.

I would like this to be a, cough, 'cheap' experiment and thus am not looking for vintage Altec, or new GPA woofers. I would love a pair or 6 of either(both), but that will have to be another day.

So my thoughts, in no real discernible order:

1200-1600 minimum crossover frequency seems logical.
A 15 would be wonderful, but I think they would fall apart near the crossover region. Maybe I'm wrong?
A sealed box would also be wonderful, but I don't think I can realistically get the low end response I want with a sealed box.

So that leaves me with a vented box, or open baffle, and a 12" woofer.

Any recommendations for 12" woofers, ideally high efficiency, would be warmly welcomed.

A quick bit of parts express shopping has led me to the following:

Visaton W300-8:

"Visaton W300-8 12" Woofer 8 Ohm" from www.parts-express.com!

Price is nice, response down low and high looks decent, minus the ~1800hz bump..
Only 91db.



Eminence DeltaPro 12a -

"Eminence Delta Pro-12A 12" Cast Frame Driver" from www.parts-express.com!

Price is ok, may be tough to get good response low enough. 50hz would be good, 40 would be much better. Efficiency is great.



Obviously I need to do a lot more research, the Visaton could work well, and at the price it's not too much of a sting if it fails miserably.

I can build anything, and have a well stocked workshop, so the box requirement is easy for me.

I've thought about Bozak 199-A, but simulating boxes for such a driver seems difficult. I've even thought about using my pair of Zenith 49cz's, perhaps in an open back cabinet. Or even simple open panel with horn on top.

This is very much a no-rush project, so taking my time to find the right components, for the right price is the plan for now.
 

JimPA

Junior Member
So, I happened upon a pair of unbranded Emilar eh800 'bowtie' horns recently for damn near nothing. I'm looking for some ec175 drivers for them now, and would like to use them with a decent 12 or 15 in a two way setup.

I would like the woofer to be as efficient as possible.

I would like this to be a, cough, 'cheap' experiment and thus am not looking for vintage Altec, or new GPA woofers. I would love a pair or 6 of either(both), but that will have to be another day.

So my thoughts, in no real discernible order:

1200-1600 minimum crossover frequency seems logical.
A 15 would be wonderful, but I think they would fall apart near the crossover region. Maybe I'm wrong?
A sealed box would also be wonderful, but I don't think I can realistically get the low end response I want with a sealed box.

So that leaves me with a vented box, or open baffle, and a 12" woofer.

Any recommendations for 12" woofers, ideally high efficiency, would be warmly welcomed.

A quick bit of parts express shopping has led me to the following:

Visaton W300-8:

"Visaton W300-8 12" Woofer 8 Ohm" from www.parts-express.com!

Price is nice, response down low and high looks decent, minus the ~1800hz bump..
Only 91db.



Eminence DeltaPro 12a -

"Eminence Delta Pro-12A 12" Cast Frame Driver" from www.parts-express.com!

Price is ok, may be tough to get good response low enough. 50hz would be good, 40 would be much better. Efficiency is great.



Obviously I need to do a lot more research, the Visaton could work well, and at the price it's not too much of a sting if it fails miserably.

I can build anything, and have a well stocked workshop, so the box requirement is easy for me.

I've thought about Bozak 199-A, but simulating boxes for such a driver seems difficult. I've even thought about using my pair of Zenith 49cz's, perhaps in an open back cabinet. Or even simple open panel with horn on top.

This is very much a no-rush project, so taking my time to find the right components, for the right price is the plan for now.

With a horn driver I would go with the Eminence due to the higher sensitivity.

I regret using drivers with foam surrounds since their lifespan's are not as long as rubber or cloth surrounds.

Beyma makes some good drivers but I have never used them.
altavoz-12mc500-8-oh
/
 

je2a3

Senior Member
EVLS12.jpg
I got this EV Wolverine LS12 at a Hamfest for $40. Not in the same league as the Altec 414, somewhat darker and lacking in snap but when rolled off at around 900Hz and augmented on top by a 32/802, quite listenable. It sounded OK too without help on top.
 
The Visaton's foam surround also concerned me a bit.

I've heard great things about Beyma's, maybe they have something that would work well. I'll research them, thank you for the tip!
 
View attachment 11572
I got this EV Wolverine LS12 at a Hamfest for $40. Not in the same league as the Altec 414, somewhat darker and lacking in snap but when rolled off at around 900Hz and augmented on top by a 32/802, quite listenable. It sounded OK too without help on top.

I had initially considered Eminence 12LTA, maybe I should try a pair....
 

je2a3

Senior Member
No experience with Eminence, since JimPA mentioned Beyma, I thought the 15" SM115 was decent. But this was almost 10 years ago. Still not quite Altec 416 league, but for a modern driver it was quite nice.


Beyma SM115 top and bottom right
 

TubeHiFiNut

Administrator
I picked up a pair of Fane Sovereign 12-250 TC (12", 8 Ohms, 250 Watt, Frequency Response 45Hz- 17kHz, 98 db) that are destined for my JE Labs OBs.

The "buzz" on these is very good and the price is reasonable.
 
I picked up a pair of Fane Sovereign 12-250 TC (12 ", 8 Ohms, 250 Watt, Frequency Response 45Hz- 17kHz, 98 db) that are destined for my JE Labs OBs.

The "buzz" on these is very good and the price is reasonable.

Ive heard good things about the 12-250TC, similar to the 12LTA IIRC.
 
"1200-1600 minimum crossover frequency seems logical.
A 15 would be wonderful, but I think they would fall apart near the crossover region. Maybe I'm wrong?"


I haven't had any problems with a 15" vintage woofer crossing over in that region. For a long time I used Jensen P15LL woofers with a 1200 Hz 12db crossover, and there is no dip, congestion, coherency or beaming problems that I can hear. That's the only 15" woofer I have owned, vintage or new, so I can't say how other models might behave.
 
"1200-1600 minimum crossover frequency seems logical.
A 15 would be wonderful, but I think they would fall apart near the crossover region. Maybe I'm wrong?"


I haven't had any problems with a 15" vintage woofer crossing over in that region. For a long time I used Jensen P15LL woofers with a 1200 Hz 12db crossover, and there is no dip, congestion, coherency or beaming problems that I can hear. That's the only 15" woofer I have owned, vintage or new, so I can't say how other models might behave.

I had thought about some vintage Jensen/Magnavox, etc. 15" alnico drivers, maybe I can find a pair inexpensively to try out. I may even try my pair of Zenith 49cz's. Once I get some compression drivers I'll probably throw together a quick test.
 
I have the same Emilar EH-800 with EA-175 drivers. I cross them over around 1K into JBL LE14A woofers, in L-55 cabinets. The horns have a 10dB pad on them, and they mate pretty much perfectly with the woofers. The crossover is a TDM 24-CX4.

I realize that's neither inexpensive nor modern, but just my own experience. Good luck with yours! I sure love the way my Emilars sound.
 
I'd say so, relative to @je2a3's tepid but honest ;) endorsement of the LS-12 above.
Disclaimer, I am something of an EV fanboy, having quite literally grown up with EV twincones in my parents' house (still have 'em, in fact).

I'll have to keep an eye out for a pair. I do like classic EV gear certainly.
 

mhardy6647

Señor Member
I'll have to keep an eye out for a pair. I do like classic EV gear certainly.
Where-ish do you live?
A long-term loan of something EV-ish could, perhaps, be arranged :)

Oh, you know what could (?!?) be interesting?
These. 😏

A pair of EV "Wolverine" LS-15 OEM, branded RCA, and - at some point (not by me!) - de-whizzered.


RCA LS15 rearview by Mark Hardy, on Flickr

RCA LS15 badge closeup by Mark Hardy, on Flickr

RCA LS15 cone by Mark Hardy, on Flickr

For comparison, here're a pair of normal LS-15s avec their whizzers.

P1030332 by Mark Hardy, on Flickr

info on the LS8, LS12(A), and LS15 from EV at https://www.electrovoice.com/binary/LS8, LS12A and LS15 EDS.pdf
Note that the sensitivities are given relative to the EIA specification (1 mW at 30 feet, or something like that); add ca. 50 dB for 1watt @ 1 meter. This guy sez 49 dB :) EIA sensitivity?
 
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