Anyone Messed With Volumio?

JP

Junior Member
Both Volumio and Moode are bit perfect, so if we think it's all just ones and zeros, then they can't sound any different right? But they do sound slightly different, and I give the nod to Moode.

Do you level match when you do these comparisons?
 

MikeyFresh

Moderator
Staff member
Do you level match when you do these comparisons?
No I don't, I think I described my listening process for these type of comparisons in another thread. Leave one in place for a period of days if not weeks or even months, get well accustomed to the sound over that time, then make a switch and play mostly all the same music again. This for me is more revealing than any kind of nervous A/B type of changes.

I'd also point out that while plenty of others have reported what they feel to be a large difference in sound between Moode and Volumio, I've never described it that way. I call it a small but noticeable "something" where Moode just seems a touch more organic and natural sounding while Volumio can sometimes exhibit a trace of artificiality that Moode does not.

In that sense it is very similar to what Audirvana sounds like as compared to JRiver as the server. I have both, and prefer Audirvana for ultimate sound quality, but it's not a big difference in my opinion, more a preference for one vs. the other than any strong stance. Thats the server side, though there the comparison can't be done on a Raspberry Pi because Audirvana is macOS and Windows only.

In all cases, this is using DLNA/UPnP, with all software volume controls defeated, and no re-sampling or any other settings that would not be bit perfect, native sample rate only.

If Moode and Volumio are said to be bit perfect, and both are set to play back files at their native sample rate, with no digital volume control, and both are underpinned by MPD, is there anything to suggest I should even need to level match when played back through the same DAC/amp/speakers?

Moreover, in eschewing any/all rapid A/B type switches for these comparisons, is level matching important?
 

JP

Junior Member
No I don't, I think I described my listening process for these type of comparisons in another thread. Leave one in place for a period of days if not weeks or even months, get well accustomed to the sound over that time, then make a switch and play mostly all the same music again. This for me is more revealing than any kind of nervous A/B type of changes.

I'd also point out that while plenty of others have reported what they feel to be a large difference in sound between Moode and Volumio, I've never described it that way. I call it a small but noticeable "something" where Moode just seems a touch more organic and natural sounding while Volumio can sometimes exhibit a trace of artificiality that Moode does not.

In that sense it is very similar to what Audirvana sounds like as compared to JRiver as the server. I have both, and prefer Audirvana for ultimate sound quality, but it's not a big difference in my opinion, more a preference for one vs. the other than any strong stance. Thats the server side, though there the comparison can't be done on a Raspberry Pi because Audirvana is macOS and Windows only.

In all cases, this is using DLNA/UPnP, with all software volume controls defeated, and no re-sampling or any other settings that would not be bit perfect, native sample rate only.

If Moode and Volumio are said to be bit perfect, and both are set to play back files at their native sample rate, with no digital volume control, and both are underpinned by MPD, is there anything to suggest I should even need to level match when played back through the same DAC/amp/speakers?

Moreover, in eschewing any/all rapid A/B type switches for these comparisons, is level matching important?

Moode native/Squeezelite, Volumio, and Roon Bridge are indeed bit perfect - I've tested and confirmed that myself. Plenty of ways to orchestrate competent testing without rapid switching. And yes, a subjective ears-only test would require basic controls.

If the software is confirmed to be pit perfect and all the underlying hardware is unchanged, what do you believe is causing a difference to be heard?
 

MikeyFresh

Moderator
Staff member
If the software is confirmed to be pit perfect and all the underlying hardware is unchanged, what do you believe is causing a difference to be heard?

I don't know except to say it is fairly widely reported, both on this very forum and elsewhere.

If I had to guess, perhaps there are differences in how these applications run in RAM, and how they tax the CPU, either in short bursts, or otherwise.

Moode has settings for governing the CPU, and buffer size, and also offers the ability to turn off everything you don't want or need including the LEDs, HDMI, WiFi, and Bluetooth, though I haven't personally used those for sound comparisons, it just makes sense for me to turn off what I don't need.

Volumio isn't quite as configurable in that regard, at least not from the browser UI, though I'm sure you can make the very same changes offered in Moode's browser UI settings, but from the CLI with Volumio.

So perhaps it's a slight difference in the amount of EMI and heat being generated due to some combination of the above settings. It should also be noted that not all reports of sound differences between Moode and Volumio are accompanied by an exhaustive listing of all settings in place. Moode goes a step further with regard to the above configuration options, and even the kernel architecture on units that are 64-bit compatible, so it is very possible some of those reporting differences in sound are using somewhat different settings in each player, which would amount to an apples-to-oranges comparison.

Or would it, if it's all just ones and zeros?
 

JP

Junior Member
Very little voltage or current for an appreciable EM field in general, let alone the CPU or RAM, an LED, or an unused HDMI port or two. Regardless, this moves the goal posts a bit in that we now seem to talking about the susceptibility of other components to environmental conditions. I’m sure there are setups out there where this is the case, as exceedingly rare as that is.
 

MikeyFresh

Moderator
Staff member
I am going to split this conversation off into a different thread, as it isn't limited or isolated to Volumio, nor Volumio vs. Moode, and the direction I'd like to see this discussion go inevitably involves the hardware too.

To begin the conversation, I'm going to step back in time to Moode's 3 series and some additional settings not mentioned above that I definitely think altered the sound quality. I say that in a past tense because those settings were removed starting with Moode's 4 series, however those and other custom configurations are still available via the CLI for those willing to try them.

I have not yet done that, but it's going to be a long hard COVID-19 winter, I'll probably have plenty of time on my hands sequestered at home, so giving a custom config a try becomes more attractive in that context.
 

JP

Junior Member
If others are interested but please don’t make the effort on my behalf as I don’t see that there’ll be a way I can participate.
 

MikeyFresh

Moderator
Staff member
If others are interested but please don’t make the effort on my behalf as I don’t see that there’ll be a way I can participate.
Understood, but I'd like it if you did find a way to participate as I know you can make a valuable contribution.

Or perhaps no one will participate, and that's OK too. Part of the lure of these cheap and cheerful RPi-based streamers is they are easy to set and forget, and many members here have expressed exactly that as important to them. So I may be barking up the wrong tree entirely here.
 

MikeyFresh

Moderator
Staff member
View attachment 35992
Just made a post, went back to turn up the volume and here I am.
@MrEd - I thought I'd move this to the Volumio thread because it's now off-topic somewhat in the "gear you're not happy with" thread from the standpoint of troubleshooting and rectifying. Hopefully we can return to that thread at some point and claim victory over this piece of software.

When last we left off I looked at the screenshot above and said you need to logout of MyVolumio in order that we try to just proceed with Qobuz access using the BubbleUPnP Android app.

Did you successfully logout of MyVolumio? I don't think you need a clean install, just ditch that MyVolumio situation that is generating the error message shown above, we don't need to kick that horse any more, though we might certainly circle back to it, but lets try to see if you can stream Qobuz without MyVolumio.
 

MrEd

Senior Nobody
I down loaded the latest Voluimo on a new card and it's working much better.
I am willing to try anything and learn.😁
 

MikeyFresh

Moderator
Staff member
I down loaded the latest Voluimo on a new card and it's working much better.
I am willing to try anything and learn.😁
Working better as in the MyVolumio login and Volumio app as control point, or are you directing the Qobuz action from the BubbleUPnP app as I had suggested?
 

MikeyFresh

Moderator
Staff member
Volumio login
OK good to know.

It is possible the original card would have worked if you had done a logout and then just login again, but it's easy enough to re-flash the card as you did, and there is always a chance the older instance had become corrupted if an update had ever hung or been interrupted, by a power outage for example.

Remember to try to have only one control point open at any given time so as to avoid the "dueling control point" phenomenon where the endpoint gets confused as to which one "owns" the playlist.

If it happens again, I'd say just logout of that MyVolumio account, and then enter your Qobuz credentials into either BubbleUPnP, or mconnect HD and try streaming it that way. I've had zero problems doing it that way with both Volumio and Moode, which is why I don't subscribe to MyVolumio.
 

MrEd

Senior Nobody
OK good to know.

It is possible the original card would have worked if you had done a logout and then just login again, but it's easy enough to re-flash the card as you did, and there is always a chance the older instance had become corrupted if an update had ever hung or been interrupted, by a power outage for example.

Remember to try to have only one control point open at any given time so as to avoid the "dueling control point" phenomenon where the endpoint gets confused as to which one "owns" the playlist.

If it happens again, I'd say just logout of that MyVolumio account, and then enter your Qobuz credentials into either BubbleUPnP, or mconnect HD and try streaming it that way. I've had zero problems doing it that way with both Volumio and Moode, which is why I don't subscribe to MyVolumio.
Got it.
I may try to set up moode again and see if I like it.
 

MikeyFresh

Moderator
Staff member
Got it.
I may try to set up moode again and see if I like it.
That one is easy, if you had internet radio working but nothing else, it sounds like you just didn't get the UPnP Renderer mode running, usually due to failing to hit SET after making that setting configuration.

That and one or two other settings are all thats needed to make Moode work there, though you would need to use BubbleUPnP or mconnect HD with your Qobuz credentials to complete that picture.
 
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