Anyone running a 2.2 setup?

Ilusndweller

Junior Member
Im curious who is running or has run 2 speakers and 2 subs. What is/was your setup? Pics? Suggestions? Has anyone tried to align the plane of the subs’ speakers with the main speakers’ speakers with success? I dont have two of the same subs and the subs are different heights so this many (or may not) lessen chances for success. I would build stands for the speakers to get them the right height and the subs would sit underneath on the floor. Basically attempt to create a “3-way 20 Hz- 20 kHz full range stereo pair” as best possible. Thanks.
 
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MikeyFresh

Moderator
Staff member
DSPeaker Anti-mode 2.0, it allows you to put the subs anywhere you want and the DSP-based room correction will make everything all better.

I run ProAc Tablette monitors with two ProAc Response ER One subs. Room placement, crossover point, phase, and level were a giant pain in the ass until I got that DSPeaker unit. I run only the subs through the room correction and am happy with that, 24-bit/48 KHz A/D and D/A for the bass frequencies only.

A more modern next step in that revolution is detailed in the Meadowlark Kite build thread.
 

Ilusndweller

Junior Member
Thanks! That thread got me thinkin about this.

Also it would seem the better you can get things before DSP, the better the end result would be.
 

TubeHiFiNut

Administrator
Many, many years ago, I tried the Satterberg subs that were (ostensibly) made to act as subs (and stands) for the LS3/5a.

Steep crossover at 180hz to ameliorate the "British Bass Hump".

SatterbergwithLS35a.jpeg

How did they work? Definitely extended the low end, but at the expense of the clarity and "magic".

Not my cup of tea.

One day, when the basement is finally done, I have some plans that include 15" woofers in Karlsons, driven by a big Crown amp, crossed over at ~60hz and with the Lowthers running full range. :chin
 

JimPA

Junior Member
Im curious who is running or has run 2 speakers and 2 subs. What is/was your setup? Pics? Suggestions? Has anyone tried to align the plane of the subs’ speakers with the main speakers’ speakers with success? I dont have two of the same subs and the subs are different heights so this many (or may not) lessen chances for success. I would build stands for the speakers to get them the right height and the subs would sit underneath on the floor. Basically attempt to create a “3-way 20 Hz- 20 kHz full range stereo pair” as best possible. Thanks.


Basically that is what Bud Fried did with his TOTL satellite and subwoofer designs.
 

Ilusndweller

Junior Member
In the Fried designs, did he do stereo subs or sum L&R and run mono to both sides? Stereo subs makes the most sense(why go through the hassle if you arent gonna run stereo subs), just wanted to confirm this is what the Fried designs do. Nice John, looking great! Im guessing you are planning to run stereo subs/please confirm. What speakers are going in there? What are you powering them? What are you giving them their low pass filter with? Let me guess, DSPsomething? And what are your speakers that Im guessing will sit on them going to be? Or are you building those too? Thanks!

Jim - Also at what frequency does the Fried system put the low/hi pass filters? I know you are a fan of his designs, I need to study up. Now Im thinking your speaker setup (homemade? or Fried?) may be what Im trying to do? Thanks!
 
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John Frum

Secret Society Member
I like relying on local and cheap, as much as possible. I recognize that this is a choice that has little to do with sound quality, but I also pride myself on actively targeting the gear I want. One foot is still firmly in the opportunistic Other Site camp, but I got bored with rolling the dice in some directions a long time ago.

A large part of my identity, as a Daytonian, involves scrounging cheap to free bits of our lost, glorious past, and reconfiguring them in ways that make sense to me as a working-class schlub in 2019, looking for the good life in a metro area that can feel like a semi-apocalyptic, opportunity-starved brownfield.

I've got a 6 cu. ft. pair of ~1970 homebrew cabs with 1.5" walls (.75" plywood, .75" underlayment) that are at the local cabinet guy for new front baffles. They used to have a driver load and tuning that were both, IMHO, poorly conceived, and they'll be reborn as bass-reflex cabinets housing Fostex FW405 15" woofers. These cabinets knocked around a couple of times on the Columbus Craigslist before they got traded to a buddy of mine, who traded them to me.

The Fostex woofers don't have the xmax of serious subs, but they're 93db/w sensitive, have a resonant frequency under 20 Hz, and they're flat to nearly 1 kHz with an extremely benign rolloff. They were designed for studio and high-end home playback, and were "heavily influenced" by the JBL 2235H, one of only a handful of other production drivers ever that will do what the FW405 does. They came from Facebook Marketplace, and had been part of Japan-assembled test jigs used at the Pioneer facility in Springboro.

I plan to use these bass bins with a Dayton Audio DSP-408 (made in China) as a foundation for whatever else I put above them. Currently, that's locally-sourced Trusonic/Atlas sealed 2-way frankenspeakers, but I've got a pair of 604-8G (bought on Facebook and shipped from Indiana) waiting to be GPA'd, and look forward to cycling through a variety of ideas in speakers and amplification. Will the woofer cabs stay long-term? Who knows!

I'd planned to power them with my workhorse yard sale Yamaha P2250, but it went home with a buddy in a fit of generosity. Right now, the heaviest-duty solid state in the house is the 100wpc amp section of the Onkyo Integra TX-870 from the one of the thrift stores that ring my neighborhood. I don't imagine that my ST-35 (another trade) will bring out the best in the Fostex woofers, but it'd probably ok, at the very least. I might have to bring some other amps on line...
 
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JimPA

Junior Member
In the Fried designs, did he do stereo subs or sum L&R and run mono to both sides? Stereo subs makes the most sense(why go through the hassle if you arent gonna run stereo subs), just wanted to confirm this is what the Fried designs do. Nice John, looking great! Im guessing you are planning to run stereo subs/please confirm. What speakers are going in there? What are you powering them? What are you giving them their low pass filter with? Let me guess, DSPsomething? And what are your speakers that Im guessing will sit on them going to be? Or are you building those too? Thanks!

Jim - Also at what frequency does the Fried system put the low/hi pass filters? I know you are a fan of his designs, I need to study up. Now Im thinking your speaker setup (homemade? or Fried?) may be what Im trying to do? Thanks!
All of your questions can be answered on the thread here index.php.
Each satellite is crossed over to each sub in stereo.
The crossover is at 100hz 12mh air core 14 gauge air core inductors and 150-200mfd caps depending on the model.
The last version C6 satellites and O6 subs being dual 10 ohm voice coils wired in parallel use 8mh 14 gauge air core inductor and 320mfd cap value.
The crossover is a series passive design in later models.
This link is good reading to understanding the difference between a parallel compared to a series crossovers. blog0402.htm

After reading numerous AES papers on series crossover designs I understand why Fried abandoned parallel passive crossovers.
They are extremely difficult to implement since the mid bass drivers need an extremely wide bandwidth requiring a small voice coil inductance.
 

RichPA

Junior Member
I run a 2.1 system now (Salk Silk Monitors plus Hsu ULS15) with a DSPeaker Anti-Mode 2.0, but I used to run 2.2 and even 2.3 systems. Using 2 or 3 subs in a 2-channel music system can be awesome, but dialing it in is a pain, and you've got wires all over the place. The best results I got were with ACI Titan subs at either end of the listening couch and an ACI Force centered between and slightly back of the main speakers. I used a TACT 2.0S for EQ and room correction. It was a fun experiment, but I was always fussing with it and never did get it quite right.
 

StevenZ

Active Member
I run a 2.1 system now (Salk Silk Monitors plus Hsu ULS15) with a DSPeaker Anti-Mode 2.0, but I used to run 2.2 and even 2.3 systems. Using 2 or 3 subs in a 2-channel music system can be awesome, but dialing it in is a pain, and you've got wires all over the place. The best results I got were with ACI Titan subs at either end of the listening couch and an ACI Force centered between and slightly back of the main speakers. I used a TACT 2.0S for EQ and room correction. It was a fun experiment, but I was always fussing with it and never did get it quite right.
Were you running 2+ subs with the DSP Antimode?
 

RichPA

Junior Member
Were you running 2+ subs with the DSP Antimode?
No. At the time I did use a number of EQ approaches, though - zSystems RDP-1, Behringer DEQ2496, and finally a TacT RCS2.0s. The TacT was very nice - it's a shame they went out of business instead of continuing to develop it.
 
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