Do you believe that our hobby is splitting?

In my travels around the various fora on the net ....I believe our hobby is splitting into two different camps:

1. Those who believe in trying to get the best sound you can. Generally these people understand the Physics and engineering. They apply the Science Rules Engineering principle to their approach to a system . They understand what factors affect this or that and are generally knowledgeable and will know a good system when they see it.

2. This group seem to acquire vintage Hi-Fi. They are more concerned with the vintage look or even status of the equipment . They chase specific brands, seem to suggest that these are the best ever. They don't seem to understand that this is a Science/Engineering/Arts based hobby. They dismiss the well known rules instead tend tp spend to achieve results...

With tongue placed firmly in cheek here and smile on face ( about how I have put this )....what do you find ....or think ?
 
In my travels around the various fora on the net ....I believe our hobby is splitting into two different camps:

1. Those who believe in trying to get the best sound you can. Generally these people understand the Physics and engineering. They apply the Science Rules Engineering principle to their approach to a system . They understand what factors affect this or that and are generally knowledgeable and will know a good system when they see it.

2. This group seem to acquire vintage Hi-Fi. They are more concerned with the vintage look or even status of the equipment . They chase specific brands, seem to suggest that these are the best ever. They don't seem to understand that this is a Science/Engineering/Arts based hobby. They dismiss the well known rules instead tend tp spend to achieve results...

With tongue placed firmly in cheek here and smile on face ( about how I have put this )....what do you find ....or think ?

I think this hobby is already incredibly atomized in terms of interests, motivations, experience, technical knowledge, preferences, and budgets, and I’ve got zero interest in a pointlessly reductive and troll-y “smart audiophiles vs. vintage enthusiasts” cleft.
 
I think everybody is out to have the best listening experience. That that means something different to almost every person causes debates, arguments, and the triggering of that awful human tendency to form and align with a team, tribalism.

I also think there’s a lot more grey area and lack of hardened attitudes offline than online. The internet is wired to push people into reinforcing already held beliefs. It’s a tribalism machine that feeds your own opinions back to you, to keep you clicking.
 
FWIW, I think the hobby has been, umm, balkanized ;)since at least the dawn of the stereo era (late 1950s).
Prior to that, it was pretty much the province of engineers, tinkerers, and former GIs who learned a thing or two about electronics along the line (I think). Perusal of R/S, Lafayette, and Allied Radio catalogs, I would posit, can provide good insight into the growth and fragmentation of the hobby. For example, look at the huge proliferation of tape decks and recorders in the pages of the catalogs in the late 60s into the early 70s! Page after page of 'em.

Even better, start reading (or at least leafing through) Audio magazines from the beginning to the end at AUDIO - Consumer audio and music magazine from 1947 to 2000.
hmm... 1947 -- the same year that the "flying saucer" craze struck America. Coincidence? ;)

The importance of WWII and "military surplus" cannot, I believe, be over-emphasized in the genesis of this furshlugginer pastime. Heathkit, e.g., leveraged the surplus market heavily for their early products (again, I believe).
 
There are hundreds of paths up the mountain,
all leading in the same direction,
so it doesn’t matter which path you take.
The only one wasting time is the one
who runs around and around the mountain,
telling everyone that his or her path is wrong.

-Hindu teaching
 
Late in life, I've come to the conclusion that I no longer care for the "audiophile" or "hobbyist" designations. I'm a music lover, pure and simple - and I don't really care that much anymore what gets me to the goal of hearing music adequately ("adequately" being the key word). I'm no longer chasing the ne plus ultra of sound. As long as it sounds involving, enveloping and reasonably true to what I've heard live - I'm good, thanks.
 
This hobby, like any hobby, is about making the hobbyist *happy*.

If a silver face with a lot of switches and meters or a cassette deck that reminds them of their youth makes them happy, then job done! If precisely defined soundstage makes the hobbyist happy, job done! If 110 Db SPL, job done! etc., etc.

No need to cast aspersions on those who take a different approach.
 
As a dealer, I hate dealing with vintage guys. I don't hate the guys - quite the opposite actually - but the approaches are so vastly different that it can be a challenge to find common ground. I have converted a few but most vintage guys have been in that type of gear for 30 years or more, so they've become acclimated to a certain sound and aren't always willing to adapt.

I can say for sure that vintage and new very rarely are able to coexist in a system, barring streaming devices and quality of life sources. In those instances, its more about convenience than sound.

As always, there are exceptions to the rule, but I find them much rarer in regards to this topic.
 
If you're a Boomer and were raised with tubes it's an addictive sound that was relatively easy to purchase, or create yourself.

If you're GenX or Millenial you grew up with solid state and you would have to go out of your way to try and locate that tube sound because it's not offered through normal big box sales stores.
 
I'm an electrical engineer and my schooling and years of working as an engineer naturally has me leaning towards the scientific principles camp. So if I'm looking at audio review publications, I pay more attention to those that both subjectively review equipment and also measure it. But I'm not dogmatic when it comes to measurements, and I don't argue with anybody that takes a different approach.
I bought active speakers because I believe the technology (and definitely the proper implementation of that technology) provides the best sound for the money; that is value.
At the same time I am looking at vintage speakers for my somewhat vintage receiver just because I think it looks cool. I derive pleasure from music from more than just sound.
 
I can say for sure that vintage and new very rarely are able to coexist in a system, barring streaming devices and quality of life sources. In those instances, its more about convenience than sound.
You can say for sure, for you, I, personally, mix both vintage and modern high-end. My turntables are vintage. Well, my best one is a mixture of new and vintage parts, new tonearm... not sure where that leaves it. Others are about 40 years old but rebuilt. My carts with one exception are new. My speakers are new. When I use a tuner, its vintage. My amps swap back and forth between newer solid state and vintage tubes (and also occasionally modern tubes). My. phono stage is modern, the tubes in it are vintage. My preamp is, well, its kind of a one-off and not sure where it would fall. It beat out both vintage and modern options. Does that make me wrong? Does that make you wrong? There is no wrong, sorry...its just a stereo. There's a wrong way to land an airplane. There's a wrong way to build a bridge. If somebody's stereo makes them happy when they listen to music? Its right.
 
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John, no need to get defensive. My statement stems from clients and friends trying to blend. You are an exception to the rule and that is awesome. In general, it is much tougher to blend vintage with new. I know on my journey I hit that wall and made a decision to pursue new.

When you get into highly modified vintage, you are playing a different game IMO.
 
John, no need to get defensive. My statement stems from clients and friends trying to blend. You are an exception to the rule and that is awesome. In general, it is much tougher to blend vintage with new. I know on my journey I hit that wall and made a decision to pursue new.

When you get into highly modified vintage, you are playing a different game IMO.

Like a moth to a flame, I can't help but ask what, specifically, is this "blending" issue?
 
As a dealer, I hate dealing with vintage guys. I don't hate the guys - quite the opposite actually - but the approaches are so vastly different that it can be a challenge to find common ground. I have converted a few but most vintage guys have been in that type of gear for 30 years or more, so they've become acclimated to a certain sound and aren't always willing to adapt.

I can say for sure that vintage and new very rarely are able to coexist in a system, barring streaming devices and quality of life sources. In those instances, its more about convenience than sound.

As always, there are exceptions to the rule, but I find them much rarer in regards to this topic.

I have been in the audio industry for 25 years and I have to tell you, this does not line up with my experiences both personally and professionally. If you are ever in driving distance to Philly, come by (post covid), we have a monthly member meeting here for forums guys from this forum and others, we blend old and new equipment nearly every session...there are many members of this forum who have experienced it firsthand.
 
In my travels around the various fora on the net ....I believe our hobby is splitting into two different camps:

1. Those who believe in trying to get the best sound you can. Generally these people understand the Physics and engineering. They apply the Science Rules Engineering principle to their approach to a system . They understand what factors affect this or that and are generally knowledgeable and will know a good system when they see it.

2. This group seem to acquire vintage Hi-Fi. They are more concerned with the vintage look or even status of the equipment . They chase specific brands, seem to suggest that these are the best ever. They don't seem to understand that this is a Science/Engineering/Arts based hobby. They dismiss the well known rules instead tend tp spend to achieve results...

With tongue placed firmly in cheek here and smile on face ( about how I have put this )....what do you find ....or think ?
Geez, seems I'm all over this topic...

No, I don't think its splitting in 2, there are like a bazillion fractions already. Tube, Solid state, compression drivers, open baffle, subwoofers, no subwoofers, vinyl, streaming and on and on and on.

1. You can pursue the best possible sound, but sometimes (many times) physics and engineering exit the discussion based on applied listening. Let me elaborate, lets say you purchase speakers that go to 20K, and amplifier that measures flat, and Hi-Res streaming. You listen to it, sounds "good"...now you have an experiment and buy a Single Ended Triode amp and high efficiency speakers that on paper don't reach as low nor go as high as flat. You put them in the room and based on your statement of applying Science Rules Engineering...you should like, prefer, get more enjoyment out of the first system but guess what, you enjoy the second system more, you feel it sounds more like music. All the measurements, all the science...what does it mean if to YOUR ears the second system sounds better, more real????

I guess what I am saying is, point 1 above is already flawed if its a measurements, physics, science first...

To be fair, you might like the first setup better, but I would bet money that if 10 people were in the room, you'd have split results. Is one wrong, one right?

ALWAYS TRUST YOUR EARS!
 
For serious listening, I'm out of the vintage space altogether. I do have my 90's vintage Meadowlark/Sony system hooked up to the TV downstairs, but while it does get almost daily use, any serious music listening is done upstairs with the main system.

The other side is, how do you define vintage? Is there a cut off line?

Finally, of the people I know in the real world, they are almost all either new gear folks, or vintage gear folks. Almost no crossover.
 
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