Doorway System Turntable - We have options!

[TubeHiFiNut]

Kind of shows how analog has made a comeback. We actually have two very nice turntable options for the Doorway System.

The new Crosley - discussed here: http://www.audiohaven.org/forum/records-and-the-gear-that-plays-them/10304-who-d-a-thunk-it

With pics:



And the U-Turn Orbit which has been discussed everywhere.

http://uturnaudio.com/

With pics:



Both are around $300.

Looks like analog will be well represented in The Doorway System!

Your thoughts?

 

[JohnVF]

I would add the ProJect Debut Carbon (it's, I think, the same turntable as the Crosley) and the more affordable variations of the Hanpin turntable like the Audio Technica. I've heard the AT..like the Debut its good enough for those who don't obsess and it won't destroy your records. It's not a bad table like some say.

 

[TubeHiFiNut]

JohnVF - Thank you, John. Very worthy additions to The Doorway System analog options!

Any of these tables will treat the records with care and should sound pretty darn good.

 

[prime minister]

I would add the ProJect Debut Carbon (it's, I think, the same turntable as the Crosley) and the more affordable variations of the Hanpin turntable like the Audio Technica. I've heard the AT..like the Debut its good enough for those who don't obsess and it won't destroy your records. It's not a bad table like some say.

Actually, the Crosley is basically the Debut III. The Carbon gets the nice upgraded arm. However, I don't think the Carbon comes with a cartridge, while the Crosley has a very nice Ortofon OM.

Edit: I was wrong. The Debut Carbon comes with an Ortofon 2M Red. $349 on Music Direct. A screaming deal with that arm! And I love the fact that it actually comes in colours!

 

[billfort]

The Debut Carbon comes with an Ortofon 2M Red. $349 on Music Direct.

Nice! That would be me.

 

[inthewoodsnolonger]

It's a good thing.

 

[David]

The Pro-Ject arm looks a little too tacky for me. I like the gloss finish though. Something green, yellow or red please.

 

[tentoze]

I bought a yellow Debut Carbon DC a couple months ago with the intention of giving it to one of my kids who has had my Linn Basik for several months. He plays 45 rpm stuff, and even though the Linn is supposed to do 45's with a relocation of the belt to another pulley, the pulley has nothing for the belt to ride in without slipping off immediately. Anyway, I bought the Debut and a Schiit phono stage,put it into my system for a month or so, but I admit I didn't listen a whole lot to it.

What listening I did, it sounded pretty dang good to me. I've never been a fan of Ortofon cartridges, and if I kept the tt, that Ortofon would get replaced with something else. It didn't sound bad at all, a bit sibilant on some records, and of course, it wasn't broken in at all. I just think the arm is good enough to hang a better cartridge on than that 2M Red.

And that yaller deck is purty- matches the kid's Miata.

 

[Hartge7]

I just think the arm is good enough to hang a better cartridge on than that 2M Red.

boy have times changed. Back in the day, one could spend list price money for a Dual, Garrard, AR or any number of other turntables and be able to buy the top-of-the-line cartridge for a penny or the next one down if you didn't get the top tt. So one was demoted from the Shure V-15whatever to the M91ED for a penny. Nowadays a botl cartridge is thrown on the beginner tables and folks need to upgrade. Can't find great deals on cartridges anymore, they sell for money now and are not deal closers. Too bad as that keeps folks in the lower ranks of cartridges, the OM 5 or 10 instead of the OM 20, 30 or 40. Big difference. But that is the state of the industry now.

 

[JohnVF]

$100 in 1972 is $570 today. So buy the Project and put the bronze stylus on it. And that $100 got you a Realistic Lab-80.

I'm not going to debate back in the day but this is a thread about a current entry level systems. We have very good options equivalent to or better than ever especially better than the recent past.

 

[tomlinmgt]

Then what would one have to spend to get into a bad ass cart for the Carbon (something that moves it up to a level of performance that might make some squirm)?

 

[JohnVF]

I guess it depends on what one thinks of Ortofon. I personally like their carts and think spending $200 on the Blue stylus could help refine things. The arm on the Carbon is very nice. There's lots of fun, healthy, used carts on ebay and other affordable options from AT, Shure, etc if you don't like Ortofon.

There's different levels of the Carbon. For $50 more at MusicDirect you can get one with a DC power supply. For $130 you could get the acrylic platter. For $179 they have a wall shelf that could help some systems more than a different cart. I really like how they set up their entry table (there's even the regular Debut below it, w/o carbon fiber arm) in a way that you can incrementally add what you think you need. Even using the OM cart that has the same body as you move up the stylus tier.

 

[tentoze]

The Carbon DC is what I bought. And I did buy an acrylic platter about a week after I got the tt. Did I HAVE to drop another $130? Not really. Did the acrylic platter improve the sound? I dunno, probably somewhat. It certainly looks cooler. Also, the foam mat that comes with the tt is....like every other one I've ever been subjected to- a pain in the ass. So I got a cork mat as well. Jinkies, I moved the starter tt upscale! Regardless, it will play 45's without aggravation, and that's what I started out to solve in the first place.

 

[TubeHiFiNut]

boy have times changed. Back in the day, one could spend list price money for a Dual, Garrard, AR or any number of other turntables and be able to buy the top-of-the-line cartridge for a penny or the next one down if you didn't get the top tt. So one was demoted from the Shure V-15whatever to the M91ED for a penny. Nowadays a botl cartridge is thrown on the beginner tables and folks need to upgrade. Can't find great deals on cartridges anymore, they sell for money now and are not deal closers. Too bad as that keeps folks in the lower ranks of cartridges, the OM 5 or 10 instead of the OM 20, 30 or 40. Big difference. But that is the state of the industry now.

When you got closer to the TOTL, yes.

Back in the mid-1970s, entry level was something like a Garrard SL55B or a Dual 1214. Probably came with a Shure M44 or M55 or a Stanton 500.

Entry level tables is one area where I totally agree that current offerings are much better than the good old days. More cost effective (in adjusted dollars) too. In my opinion, of course.

 

[Catcher10]

I had the AT LP120 for a bit and really enjoyed that TT, it has all the options needed to play anything really. Install a better cart and that table has no issues for someone wanting plug and play.

 

[Hartge7]

When you got closer to the TOTL, yes.

Back in the mid-1970s, entry level was something like a Garrard SL55B or a Dual 1214. Probably came with a Shure M44 or M55 or a Stanton 500.

Entry level tables is one area where I totally agree that current offerings are much better than the good old days. More cost effective (in adjusted dollars) too. In my opinion, of course.

Probably true but the entry level table today is no where near as good as the same money spent wisely on good vintage tables. Even now with the recent increases in used prices the value is still there. But top of the line today is much higher. We can't be using adjusted dollars. I made 1980 dollars in 1980 and today it is 2015 dollars. Different, can't compare because we turn it into gear or something that is really fringe when looking at inflation. Too much technology changes to account for, too.

 

[TubeHiFiNut]

Probably true but the entry level table today is no where near as good as the same money spent wisely on good vintage tables. Even now with the recent increases in used prices the value is still there. But top of the line today is much higher.

Pretty much everyone currently on Audio Haven has the knowledge to shop for a vintage table and also knows what to avoid.

My thinking around The Doorway System is to have a system made up of new components that someone new to our hobby can feel comfortable purchasing and using for some time without having to worry about refurbishing, etc.

Once folks start playing around with Hi-Fi, refine their listening biases and gain additional knowledge of the used/vintage scene, they can take that path to upgrade - if they choose to do so..

Just my random thoughts - YMMV.....

 

[prime minister]

Probably true but the entry level table today is no where near as good as the same money spent wisely on good vintage tables. Even now with the recent increases in used prices the value is still there. But top of the line today is much higher.

I disagree. I'd rather have a new table then a cheapie vintage one. I am sick and tired of fixing old turntables. And all the ones I have had that have not been at least mid line of better have been pretty close to garbage. I;ve owned close to 40 turntables, and nothing has given me more grief then messing with old ones. The single worst one was a Pioneer PL-630. A decent sounding table when running well, but that was infrequent. Nothing that a Rega P3 wouldn't easily see off in terms of sound quality.

I paid about the same in 1985 for a Dual 505-2 with a walnut base and an OM 10 (in 1985 dollars of course - That is $707 2015 dollars), as what the Debut Carbon costs now. I'd take a Debut Carbon over that any day. I do miss the auto-lift on those turntables, But for me, I'd take something new, set up properly at my dealer, with a nice warranty.

To me, 2015 is the best time ever to buy a turntable!

 

[Hartge7]

I disagree. I'd rather have a new table then a cheapie vintage one. I am sick and tired of fixing old turntables.

To me, 2015 is the best time ever to buy a turntable!

You have had bad luck with the used market. Sorry about that. I have not. I paid 140 for a KD-650 with some nail on it, 300 for a KD-600 with a Fidelity Research FR-64s/Koetsu Black, 240 for a TD-125B no dust cover, no arm, but have a friend with a dustcover and hinges and an SME to slap on it, the Free HK T55c worked great, the accompanying KD-21 is a hunk of junk, well worth the price. The SL-1600 II discussed in another thread works fine, too. Even the low end has been comfortable. JVC JL-A20 came with the second pair of Dahlquists, sub, crossover, amps, preamp and tuner, got a new belt and new cartridge. The 10 dollar JVC QL-F4 had a hitch in its giddy-up but that went away and now sports a new stylus on an Empire, fine for someone. The $25 Sony PS-X7 did need a recap to work right but both Philips, GA-212 with a kick stand for the dust cover and a GA-312 with LEDs not lights, all very decent tables and many just light years ahead of the entry-level tables today. But one must need to know what to look for, which turntables, and this was a 40+ year education I have amassed. Also helpful to be able to do some work on them.

I don't think it is luck of the draw if proper evaluation of the table prior to purchase id done. But there is a lot of junk out there and any entry level table today is better than a non-working Dual or whatever that has mechanical issues and more.

I do agree with your last statement. Lots of great used tables, good mid priced tables and excellent high end tables are all over the place today. But the problem is that I loaned the HK T-55c to a friend and he won't let it go and after I got the Sony, my brother decided he wanted a table for his system. So for his BD a few years ago he gets a Sony with a dust cover that NEVER had the plastic cling sheet removed from it. Absolutely spectacular looking. I'm only keeping maybe three tables, KD-600, TD-125 or 160Super and the Technics. Some are already gone some are ready to go.

 

[prime minister]

However, that really isn't what the Doorway is about. It is not meant for technically savvy folks looking for a great "deal". The Doorway is also not for people who need to learn how to service a turntable. The Doorway is for people who did what everyone did back in the 60's, 70's and 80's: Go to your local audio store and buy a new piece of equipment that works. That doesn't require skill or luck. That has a warranty. That they can just take home and plug in and start using. THAT is what the Doorway is all about.