DSD playback options

Is there an album/file format you could recommend for a spectacular demo
I have a very limited selection of SACDs. The multi-channel ones that I have are:
Code:
Pink Floyd - Dark Side of the Moon
Dire Straits - Brothers in Arms - 20th Anniversary edition
Elton John - Goodbye Yellow Brick Road
The Who - Tommy
Erich Kunzel Cincinnati Pops Orchestra - Tchaikovsky 1812 (I bought this for a friend)
In the 1812, they have the cannons going off all around you.

Maybe other members of the forum can suggest some for you.
 
I hadn’t considered multichannel and I’m sure you’re correct. All the SACDs I have ripped so far are stereo and the improvement over ripped CD is very satisfying. The Onkyo does a pretty good job of spreading the sound around the 7.4.2 speaker configuration I have.
You mention the Sony X800. I have a Sony X700 which feeds to a Dolby Atmos capable audio port on the Onkyo receiver. I will look around for a multichannel FLAC file or similar and see if I can get the same results that you enjoy with your X800. Is there an album/file format you could recommend for a spectacular demo, for when we can once more entertain guests indoors in safety?
I owe you a considerable vote of thanks and appreciation for your observation and suggestion. I thought the DSF stereo was good, but played through the Sony X700 BDP (with the correct settings) the playback of multi-channel DSF is indescribably GREAT. Now all I’ve got to do is find a way to simplify the navigation. THANK YOU SO MUCH!
 
I have a very limited selection of SACDs. The multi-channel ones that I have are:
Code:
Pink Floyd - Dark Side of the Moon
Dire Straits - Brothers in Arms - 20th Anniversary edition
Elton John - Goodbye Yellow Brick Road
The Who - Tommy
Erich Kunzel Cincinnati Pops Orchestra - Tchaikovsky 1812 (I bought this for a friend)
In the 1812, they have the cannons going off all around you.

Maybe other members of the forum can suggest some for you.
Please see my other post that ended up appended to my previous post. I have: Dark Side, YBR, Tommy and 1812 already. Something about Great Minds in there somewhere? Right now Gloria Estefan is exhorting me to Do the Conga from all 13 of my speakers. Incredible! Thanks again.
 
You mean you have Redbook CDs that you ripped to FLAC, and now want to convert them to DSD?
Yes, Im experimenting. Im using pine player and streaming from my computer to my Apple TV 4K (DSD’s) that’s its connected via HDMI to my oppo 203 and my oppo to a Parasound p5 I wonder if I loose quality doing it this route.
 

MikeyFresh

Moderator
Staff member
Yes, Im experimenting. Im using pine player and streaming from my computer to my Apple TV 4K (DSD’s) that’s its connected via HDMI to my oppo 203 and my oppo to a Parasound p5 I wonder if I loose quality doing it this route.
You lost me. I asked if you meant you had CDs (Compact Discs) that had been ripped to FLAC that you now wished to convert to DSD. Thats the way I read your initial question, but I wasn't really sure if that's exactly what you meant.

Your reply says "yes", but then goes on to describe streaming DSD to an AppleTV (not DSD compatible) and on through via HDMI to an Oppo 203.

That's not at all Redbook CDs ripped to FLAC converted to DSD, the one has nothing to do with the other.

Regardless, the chain you describe is suboptimal in that there is definitely transcoding from DSD to PCM going on there using the AppleTV, likely what you are listening to is 24-bit/48kHz PCM. This wouldn't necessarily be a disaster if using very high quality software-based transcoding, for instance with Audirvana which uses SoX to convert DSD to PCM, however allowing a device such as an AppleTV to do that in the hardware domain is not going to yield the best results.

Please try to carefully describe things so that members can give you better answers, as noted above, and also for instance what are you in fact streaming, is it stereo, or multichannel, or both?
 
You lost me. I asked if you meant you had CDs (Compact Discs) that had been ripped to FLAC that you now wished to convert to DSD. Thats the way I read your initial question, but I wasn't really sure if that's exactly what you meant.

Your reply says "yes", but then goes on to describe streaming DSD to an AppleTV (not DSD compatible) and on through via HDMI to an Oppo 203.

That's not at all Redbook CDs ripped to FLAC converted to DSD, the one has nothing to do with the other.
Sorry, yes I want to convert my CDs (FLAC files) to DSD.
The other part im explaining how im playing the files. Here I attached the screenshot one its DSD and the other one its Flac

Screen Shot 2020-10-15 at 9.10.40 PM.pngScreen Shot 2020-10-15 at 9.11.06 PM.png
 
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MikeyFresh

Moderator
Staff member
Sorry, yes I want to convert my CDs (FLAC files) to DSD.
The other part im explaining how im playin the files here I attached the screenshot one its DSD and the other one its Flac
View attachment 28563View attachment 28564
OK, so these really need to be 2 separate questions, otherwise no one can tell exactly what you are after.

Still, on the one hand, you say "yes" you have CDs that you have ripped to FLAC, and you'd like to "convert" them to DSD.

Even that is not very clear, as "convert' literally means to take the file and convert it once and for all to DSD, the result being you no longer have a FLAC file at all, you have a DSD file. Conversion software of that type is professional level and expensive, Weiss Saracon for example. Almost no one does that both for the cost consideration of the software, and also because the resulting file is MUCH larger to both store and stream than a Redbook CD file is, not to mention the marginal improvement in sound quality.

I think what you really mean is you have FLAC files that you'd like to upsample or transcode to DSD on-the-fly for playback purposes, meaning you aren't actually converting the file once and for all, you'd like to keep it in FLAC format for the storage savings that affords, and play it back as DSD?

That is much more easily and affordably accomplished, though I'm relatively sure no one here can tell you how to do that with Pine Player, and I'd urge you to seek out a Pine Player forum to discuss that aspect if you are married to that software.

The way most people would do that on a Mac computer is with Audirvana. No, it is not free. Yes, it is excellent player software that would allow you to transcode on-the-fly to DSD, over the previously mentioned DLNA/UPnP protocol. Audirvana would be the server, and it would stream directly to the Oppo 203 setup as a DLNA/UPnP Renderer/Endpoint/Streamer.

If you don't understand any of the above terminology, Google is your best friend, or we'd be happy to help you understand it here, but we can't easily decipher vague posts that mention two different things at once.

Lastly, I moved your original post on this topic here from the SACD ripping thread, because it has nothing to do with ripping SACD. Please try to stay on-topic in that regard. Thank you.

PS - your screenshots once again show something entirely different from Redbook CD playback, those files are DSF (DSD), and 24-bit/192kHz PCM (not Redbook CD which is 16/44.1).
 
OK, so these really need to be 2 separate questions, otherwise no one can tell exactly what you are after.

Still, on the one hand, you say "yes" you have CDs that you have ripped to FLAC, and you'd like to "convert" them to DSD.

Even that is not very clear, as "convert' literally means to take the file and convert it once and for all to DSD, the result being you no longer have a FLAC file at all, you have a DSD file. Conversion software of that type is professional level and expensive, Weiss Saracon for example. Almost no one does that both for the cost consideration of the software, and also because the resulting file is MUCH larger to both store and stream than a Redbook CD file is, not to mention the marginal improvement in sound quality.

I think what you really mean is you have FLAC files that you'd like to upsample or transcode to DSD on-the-fly for playback purposes, meaning you aren't actually converting the file once and for all, you'd like to keep it in FLAC format for the storage savings that affords, and play it back as DSD?

That is much more easily and affordably accomplished, though I'm relatively sure no one here can tell you how to do that with Pine Player, and I'd urge you to seek out a Pine Player forum to discuss that aspect if you are married to that software.

The way most people would do that on a Mac computer is with Audirvana. No, it is not free. Yes, it is excellent player software that would allow you to transcode on-the-fly to DSD, over the previously mentioned DLNA/UPnP protocol. Audirvana would be the server, and it would stream directly to the Oppo 203 setup as a DLNA/UPnP Renderer/Endpoint/Streamer.

If you don't understand any of the above terminology, Google is your best friend, or we'd be happy to help you understand it here, but we can't easily decipher vague posts that mention two different things at once.

Lastly, I moved your original post on this topic here from the SACD ripping thread, because it has nothing to do with ripping SACD. Please try to stay on-topic in that regard. Thank you.
Thanks.
What I used its DBpoweramp to “convert” (that’s what the program says) or transcode my Flac file to DSD and I still can keep the Flac file.
Im not using the Pine app to convert, im using it for a playback as is shown in the screen shot since the Pine plays DSD’s.
I understand that the files are lager I took me like 25 minutes to convert or transcode all the album.
My question its that good to use the chain I describe previously.
When I play the DSD file sounds cleaner and with the Flac file its a bit louder.
 

MikeyFresh

Moderator
Staff member
Thanks.
What I used its DBpoweramp to “convert” (that’s what the program says) or transcode my Flac file to DSD and I still can keep the Flac file.
Im not using the Pine app to convert, im using it for a playback as is shown in the screen shot since the Pine plays DSD’s.
I understand that the files are lager I took me like 25 minutes to convert or transcode all the album.
My question its that good to use the chain I describe previously.
When I play the DSD file sounds cleaner and with the Flac file its a bit louder.
Then why not just say that originally?

dBPoweramp is excellent software and has been for many years now. That said, the last time I had a working instance of it was on Windows XP, a very long time ago. So I can't comment on it anymore except to say it is of excellent pedigree.

So you did convert the files as well as save the original FLAC, again, that would have been great information to have upfront, but it still leaves mystery. You said to convert FLACs that were your CD rips, but the screen shot shows a 24/192 file. Thats not a CD, hence my complete confusion as to what you were actually describing.

"Pine plays DSDs", but how? You you connecting a USB cable directly from a Mac computer to what? An AppleTV? Skip that as I believe no matter what you feed it, the output is 24/48 PCM, though I have no experience with the newest 4k versions of that device.

Or, did you actually setup and continue to use some sort of Plex server or other server that has also gone unmentioned here?

My suggestion, all along, and still, is to stream directly to the Oppo 203 over DLNA/UPnP.

If Pine Player can do that, great. If not, you'd want to look at Mac server software such as Audirvana or JRiver for that purpose. In doing so, I would not recommend either file conversion as you describe with dBPower amp, nor file transcoding with the media player software, I would just leave everything at it's native sample rate and stream it directly to the UDP-203 for "best" sound quality.

I don't actually do "best" which is why I put it in quotation marks, why don't you give that route a try with Audirvana's free trial version and report back, you tell us if that yields "best" sound quality in your particular setup. I think it just might.
 
Then why not just say that originally?

dBPoweramp is excellent software and has been for many years now. That said, the last time I had a working instance of it was on Windows XP, a very long time ago. So I can't comment on it anymore except to say it is of excellent pedigree.

So you did convert the files as well as save the original FLAC, again, that would have been great information to have upfront, but it still leaves mystery. You said to convert FLACs that were your CD rips, but the screen shot shows a 24/192 file. Thats not a CD, hence my complete confusion as to what you were actually describing.

"Pine plays DSDs", but how? You you connecting a USB cable directly from a Mac computer to what? An AppleTV? Skip that as I believe no matter what you feed it, the output is 24/48 PCM, though I have no experience with the newest 4k versions of that device.

Or, did you actually setup and continue to use some sort of Plex server or other server that has also gone unmentioned here?

My suggestion, all along, and still, is to stream directly to the Oppo 203 over DLNA/UPnP.

If Pine Player can do that, great. If not, you'd want to look at Mac server software such as Audirvana or JRiver for that purpose. In doing so, I would not recommend either file conversion as you describe with dBPower amp, nor file transcoding with the media player software, I would just leave everything at it's native sample rate and stream it directly to the UDP-203 for "best" sound quality.

I don't actually do "best" which is why I put it in quotation marks, why don't you give that route a try with Audirvana's free trial version and report back, you tell us if that yields "best" sound quality in your particular setup. I think it just might.



"So you did convert the files as well as save the original FLAC, again, that would have been great information to have upfront, but it still leaves mystery. You said to convert FLACs that were your CD rips, but the screen shot shows a 24/192 file. Thats not a CD, hence my complete confusion as to what you were actually describing."

The 24/192 its after sampling format from the original CD Flac using Pine here I attached the screenshot of the original Flac and after sampling the Flac File.



"Pine plays DSDs", but how? You you connecting a USB cable directly from a Mac computer to what? An AppleTV? Skip that as I believe no matter what you feed it, the output is 24/48 PCM, though I have no experience with the newest 4k versions of that device."

The playback its over “Airplay” using Pine from my computer to the Apple TV 4K Connected via HDMI on the Oppo HDMI “IN”, from my Oppo I connect from the RCA out to a Parasound P5 RCA inn.

like I said before im experimenting and sharing this because the people here has more knowledge than I do.
 

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And here is shows the process while converting the Flac to DSD. I highlighted the DSD file.
screenshoot attached
 

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MikeyFresh

Moderator
Staff member
OK, so the issue in your screenshot is the window called Pine Converter, it appears to output a 24/192 FLAC, and not a CD rip. Again, you said these were CD rips.

That said, Airplay does not support DSD of course, and the specific version of your AppleTV likely does not support anything other than 24/48kHz output.

I say "likely" because I don't have an Apple TV 4K. The original AirPlay also would not output anything above 24/48 to the best of my knowledge, however some newer Airplay 2 versions just might. Check the published specs for your specific version of that hardware device to learn more. I doubt you will do any better than forced hardware-based 24/48 with Apple TV.

The 24/192 its after sampling format from the original CD Flac using Pine here I attached the screenshot of the original Flac and after sampling the Flac File.
Incomprehensible. Please refer to the Pine Player forum for that kind of thing. I think you are saying you ripped your CDs to 24/192 FLAC, or the Pine Player is upsampling your CD rips to 24/192, but again it just isn't even remotely clear. Over and out.
 
OK, so the issue in your screenshot is the window called Pine Converter, it appears to output a 24/192 FLAC, and not a CD rip. Again, you said these were CD rips.

That said, Airplay does not support DSD of course, and the specific version of your AppleTV likely does not support anything other than 24/48kHz output.

I say "likely" because I don't have an Apple TV 4K. The original AirPlay also would not output anything above 24/48 to the best of my knowledge, however some newer Airplay 2 versions just might. Check the published specs for your specific version of that hardware device to learn more. I doubt you will do any better than forced hardware-based 24/48 with Apple TV.


Incomprehensible. Please refer to the Pine Player forum for that kind of thing. I think you are saying you ripped your CDs to 24/192 FLAC, or the Pine Player is upsampling your CD rips to 24/192, but again it just isn't even remotely clear. Over and out.
Let me explain my self.
I ripped the file with DPPOWERAMP. on the Flac folder

Once its ripped I play it on the pine app (1st picture attached), on the pine it has a menu within the app where you can upsampling the file. (2nd picture attached)

On the 3rd picture it show you that you will get two files, the original (cd rip) and the upsampling one after the upsampling process with Pine.

Then you can play the upsampling file at anywhere that why it shows 2 of the same songs one is the original cd flac file and the other one its the upsampling file that I made with pine.

I hope it helps.
 

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The 20x series are such nice machines, I'm surprised Oppo never corrected that.

Is it limited to the network input, or is playback from a USB drive also not gapless?
I never tried it with network playback, but USB drive has gaps. FLAC is gapless.
 
I never tried it with network playback, but USB drive has gaps. FLAC is gapless.
Through network playback the gapless option is not possible. Through usb, gapless playback only is allowed selecting an album by folder, not by artist or album.

Other bug I find in my oppo 203 is with the order of the track. I have named all the tracks with the track numbers at the beginning. When I use the Oppo app in my tablet, select an artist and appears all the albums with its tracks but ones keep the order and others not.

After ripping all my collection of DVD-A and Blu Ray Audio and 3 of my SACD I observe this:

SACD (dsf):Bitrate: 16934 kbit/s - Samplerate 2822400 Hz
SACD (convert to flac with DSD2FLAC): Bitrate: Variable (7000 - 8000 kbit/s) - Samplerate 88200 Hz
DVD AUDIO: Bitrate: Variable (3000 - 9000 kbit/s) - Samplerate 48000 - 96000 Hz
BLU RAY AUDIO: Bitrate: Variable (3000 - 9000 kbit/s) - Samplerate 48000 - 96000 Hz

Are there any audible quality losses when going from dsf to flac for the SACDs?

Is DSD2FLAC a good tool to convert dsf files to flac in MacOS?
 
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MikeyFresh

Moderator
Staff member
Are there any audible quality losses when going from dsf to flac for the SACDs?
That is a broad and difficult question, it really depends on how well any particular DAC handles PCM playback vs. DSD playback, and your system's ability to flesh out those differences. It should be a very small but perhaps not totally inaudible difference.

Is DSD2FLAC a good tool to convert dsf files to flac in MacOS?
Yes it is.
 
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