EPI Speakers

[fiddlefye]

Having seen a few mentions on forum of EPI speakers lately and having just got my 100s back from my tech I though maybe it was time to get a thread going. I'm not going to narrow the topic to strictly the early generation models with the "masonite" tweeter, though that is as far as my personal exposure extends.

My first EPIs were a set of M50s that I got with a Yamaha CA-410 back in the mid-70s and this was my only stereo system for the next dozen years or so. I auditioned a quite a few combinations at my limited entry-level budget and I thought the pairing had the most realistic sound for the funds available. Of the early models I've also owned 202s and the 100s (more on them shortly) and have had extensive time listening to the 400 "mini-towers" and 1000 beasts. The 202s were paired with a nice 100 w/ch Yamaha receiver and CDP for my daughter's birthday a decade back, the 50s reside in a kitchen system.

So, on to the 100s in question - nice condition walnut veneered cabinets on these. I got them for next to nothing in a pawnshop 25 years or more ago ($5? $10?), got them home and discovered that the cheap non-original drivers were toast masonite tweeters were fine. A friend took a shot at reviving them with some other non-EPI woofers and they soldiered on in various systems do yeoman service.

I pulled them out awhile back and noticed that is seemed like one of the tweeters had been fried when my ex tried blow them up when I was out (toward the end she had a shot at a few pair of speakers what way). So after residing in the back of a closet for a few years I decided recently I either had to get them completely renovated or pass the, on to someone else.

Glenn (Audio Two) had some spare masonite tweeters listed on his website so I bought the lot, all three. I also got a pair of proper woofers from Huw at Human Speakers, a pair of nice Mundorf caps for the crossover (one cap, that's all there is to it) and some good binding posts to replace the stupid clip things EPI used back then - not that they were the only ones guilty of such!

So I took the lot over to Dennis, my tech, to deal with. The first thing he discovered was that there was nothing wrong with any of the tweeters, it was a crossover had burned up. I now have five masonite tweeters, a lifetime supply! It was decided to eliminate the iffy level controls in the assembly as they can't be doing anything good for the sound. Once everything was together Dennis wasn't happy with what was coming out of the tweeters so he pulled them out and had a look. It turned out the brass clip/steel post interface had gone sour on them. He checked the other three tweeters and found the same to be true, so he sorted them all out and then picked out the best matched pair to install, from the same production batch as it turned out.

In measuring the output from each of the tweeters Dennis also discovered something interesting about the dispersion pattern of the inverted dome tweeters. They produce less right on centre and have a great wide pattern. Between that and the single cap crossover it would explain why the speakers image so well I'd reckon. Dennis also reckons that all of the improvements have also raised the efficiency to at least 90db. Interesting.

So, how do they sound, you ask? Quite magnificent, even with only 3 hours of burn-in on brand new woofers and caps. I took them over to my wife's art supply shop and paired them with the Yamaha CA-1010 and they immediately sounded wonderful. Vintage Yamaha and EPI are an excellent pairing. My wife is audio-friendly, but doesn't pay particular attention to how things sound (I think she's now just used to everything sounding decent) but she commented immediately on how fine the speakers sounded. I'll have to stop back at the shop in a few days and see how things are sounding with having been run 8 hours a day for awhile.

Interesting observation - over the years when I've run different speakers I've always had women in particular comment on how much they liked the EPIs. Wonder why that is?

So, anyone care to comment on their own EPI experiences?

 

[Dan ʕ•ᴥ•ʔ]

I have my own EPI knockoffs using Huw PRO-005 woofs. Excellent sound from a smallish package!

 

[Ernie]

I have my one-owner 50s in the LR. That is my wife's primary system, and is used for the occasional DVD. They have lived quite nicely, over the years with a Kenwood 3500. She won't let me change out those speakers, having listened to a few different pair on those stands.

Kenwood and EPI seems to be another good pairing. My mother uses a Kenwood receiver with her 100s.

When rebuilding these, I've always just used the Dayton 1% caps, and a film&foil bypass. The 50s use a 5 ohm resistor, so a Bennic wirewound has done the job.

I have an early pair of the Human M50 clone, the 61. My pair is pictured on the Human website.

 

[fiddlefye]

I have my one-owner 50s in the LR. That is my wife's primary system, and is used for the occasional DVD. They have lived quite nicely, over the years with a Kenwood 3500. She won't let me change out those speakers, having listened to a few different pair on those stands.

Kenwood and EPI seems to be another good pairing. My mother uses a Kenwood receiver with her 100s.

When rebuilding these, I've always just used the Dayton 1% caps, and a film&foil bypass. The 50s use a 5 ohm resistor, so a Bennic wirewound has done the job.

I have an early pair of the Human M50 clone, the 61. My pair is pictured on the Human website.View attachment 8141

Those look really nice! As to the choice of cap - the Mundorff was a but of overkill, but they were on sale....

 

[J. Frum]

A pair of Genesis Physics 110 were the first speakers I ever hauled home from a thrift store and refoamed.

I remember that, hooked to my parents' Pioneer SX-650, the Genesis made their JBL Northridge bookshelf speakers sound positively faulty in comparison.

It's been pretty much "off to the races" with audio for me ever since. I moved on from the 110s pretty quickly, but I retain an appreciation for the EPI/Genesis speakers, particularly the 6.5" 2-way designs. They're not even my favorite East Coast sealed-box speakers, but they provide a tantalizing taste of real audio.

 

[JohnVF]

I don't know the exact relationship between EPI and Genesis Physics but Genesis was one of my first obsessions when I really got into audio the middle of the last decade. For whatever reason Chicago thrift stores were loaded with Genesis speakers and I did a whole surround setup with them, replacing an NHT setup that I'd had for almost a decade, before using them in a 2-channel setup. To this day I think they're among the most unsung speakers in vintage audio, and better than a lot of new budget options (and maybe quite a bit above 'budget').

I've thought about getting a pair of the nicer Epicures with better cabinets and doing what you've done. Heck, I'd love to do that this winter. Maybe I will! I'm so happy with my setups that it gives me a chance to just step back and just play around.

Are the Human Speakers drivers much different than the ones he did back in the day?

 

[fiddlefye]

I don't know the exact relationship between EPI and Genesis Physics but Genesis was one of my first obsessions when I really got into audio the middle of the last decade. For whatever reason Chicago thrift stores were loaded with Genesis speakers and I did a whole surround setup with them, replacing an NHT setup that I'd had for almost a decade, before using them in a 2-channel setup. To this day I think they're among the most unsung speakers in vintage audio, and better than a lot of new budget options (and maybe quite a bit above 'budget').

I've thought about getting a pair of the nicer Epicures with better cabinets and doing what you've done. Heck, I'd love to do that this winter. Maybe I will! I'm so happy with my setups that it gives me a chance to just step back and just play around.

Are the Human Speakers drivers much different than the ones he did back in the day?

The original series EPIs had quite nice cabinets, actually - nice, thick walnut veneer on all of the ones I've owned. Later it was a Epicure line that got the nice cabs and the EPIs got vinyl.

As to the Human Speakers drivers - I'm not sure about the tweeters as they are aluminum, though still appear to be inverted dome, but the while the woofers use more modern materials they apparently spec out the same.

 

[mhardy6647]

So, I am reading through this thread trying to think of something intelligent to say (which is a step ahead of my usual posting strategy, as folks've doubtless noticed!).

The EPI ethos was nearly unique (how's that for equivocation?), even in its time -- they went to great lengths to engineer and build components that permitted cheap, simple implementation to deliver a highly cost effective end product. To wit, the Burhoe Module used drivers with fairly unusual (at least by 1970s standards) performance so that the crossover between them could be as cheap and simple as possible.

Here's what I came up with: The EPI 100 (and its kin) is/are the Lotus Seven (or Caterham Seven as the case may be) of loudspeakers.

Oh, and one other thing -- we are probably able to have good access to the EPI products as a direct consequence of one other phenomenon -- recognition of an EPI model by Consumer Reports as a "Best Buy" in loudspeakers.

 

[Ernie]

When Winslow Burhoe was active on his Silent Speakers website forum, I had an extensive conversation with him about Huw's tweeter. He had lots of good to say about it. The most telling was that he had been considering the design of an aluminum concave dome, and that Huw's tweeter met his design goals. "It is the tweeter I would call the next generation of my design."

 

[fiddlefye]

When Winslow Burhoe was active on his Silent Speakers website forum, I had an extensive conversation with him about Huw's tweeter. He had lots of good to say about it. The most telling was that he had been considering the design of an aluminum concave dome, and that Huw's tweeter met his design goals. "It is the tweeter I would call the next generation of my design."

Cool information. It is too bad that EPI ended up going down the path it took as it would have been great to have seen the original concepts evolve over time. I guess that is Huw's job now. I've had a couple of conversations with Winslow as well, albeit very brief.

In addition to the speakers I have I also have the two pieces of electronics that Winslow designed, the M-1 power amp and the M-4 pre. The M-1 has been playing in the living room system for years, but the M-4 has been a closet queen simply due to what seems to me to be some possible fragility in a few areas. Maybe I will give it some real play time if I get a complete rebuild done on it. As I understand it the cost of producing these pieces was the undoing of Winslow's association with the company he founded, though this could be scuttlebutt.

 

[fiddlefye]

So, I am reading through this thread trying to think of something intelligent to say (which is a step ahead of my usual posting strategy, as folks've doubtless noticed!).

The EPI ethos was nearly unique (how's that for equivocation?), even in its time -- they went to great lengths to engineer and build components that permitted cheap, simple implementation to deliver a highly cost effective end product. To wit, the Burhoe Module used drivers with fairly unusual (at least by 1970s standards) performance so that the crossover between them could be as cheap and simple as possible.

Here's what I came up with: The EPI 100 (and its kin) is/are the Lotus Seven (or Caterham Seven as the case may be) of loudspeakers.

Oh, and one other thing -- we are probably able to have good access to the EPI products as a direct consequence of one other phenomenon -- recognition of an EPI model by Consumer Reports as a "Best Buy" in loudspeakers.

Well, I have the EPIs, now all I need is one of these! They've always been a dream car for me, just one I couldn't afford to realize.

 

[mhardy6647]

When Winslow Burhoe was active on his Silent Speakers website forum, I had an extensive conversation with him about Huw's tweeter. He had lots of good to say about it. The most telling was that he had been considering the design of an aluminum concave dome, and that Huw's tweeter met his design goals. "It is the tweeter I would call the next generation of my design."

I sent him (Burhoe, that is) an e-mail a couple of years ago (I don't remember why but I must have had a question) and I was surprised (stunned, actually) to get a quick (and pleasant and informative) response from him. I hold him in high esteem indeed (FWIW).

 

[Ernie]

Deservedly so, Doc.

 

[J. Frum]

I sent him (Burhoe, that is) an e-mail a couple of years ago (I don't remember why but I must have had a question) and I was surprised (stunned, actually) to get a quick (and pleasant and informative) response from him. I hold him in high esteem indeed (FWIW).

Win is a surprisingly accessible guy. I remember him poking his head in at AK, and I'm friends with him on Facebook.

He has truly original and unconventional views on a number of subjects, and even when I find myself disagreeing with him, I often have to concede he has a fresh, well-thought-out perspective.

 

[J. Frum]

On a potentially-related topic, I've never heard a Focal speaker I didn't like that was equipped with their inverted dome tweeter.

 

[fiddlefye]

I stopped by the Beatnik (my wife's art supply shop) to see how the 100s are playing in and they are sounding quite wonderful. Apparently there are many customers who ask about the great sound system in the store. Since the rebuild they sound considerably better than any 100s I've heard in past - delicate, but with balance and real "meat on the bones". The set-up on the piano is temporary. I'm planning on putting the components in the classroom next door, running speaker wire through the walls and mounting the 100s on shelves or speaker mounts of some sort.
DSC_2920 by fiddlefye, on Flickr

 

[mhardy6647]

That's a pretty lucky pair of EPI 100s to be hooked to a CA-1010

 

[fiddlefye]

That's a pretty lucky pair of EPI 100s to be hooked to a CA-1010

A completely rebuilt CA-1010 with all of the good caps in it at that!

First generation EPI and Yamaha of that vintage is a "natural" pairing (pardon the in-joke). My first "good" stereo back as a university student was a CA-410 and M50s (actually not quite true - I had a CA-400 and Dynaco A-10s for a few weeks before they were stolen). I tried every speaker in the shop I could afford and the EPIs came out on top with the Yamaha. The 100s actually do real justice to the CA-1010 to my ears. The top end is really smooth and sweet (as one expects with those tweeters) and the bass is quite palpable. What I wasn't expecting was that the mid-range would be so nice as well. Female vocals come across very well indeed.

 

[mhardy6647]

When & where I came from (Baltimore), the canonical pairing was Yamaha and Polk Audio.

 

[fiddlefye]

When & where I came from (Baltimore), the canonical pairing was Yamaha and Polk Audio.

I can well believe that. In all honesty I'm speaking mostly from my own experience on the pairing, though I certainly wasn't alone in it. Remember also that I was primarily concerned with reproducing classical music with as much accuracy as I could muster on a cheap budget. My friends who were strictly rock oriented were more into Pioneer and Cerwin Vega or JBL. Only the really well-heeled went for Marantz. Ah, the 70s...