Good quality, Unfancy Speaker Cable ?

prime minister

Site Owner
Staff member
I will have to do a thread on Mil Spec m22759/11. It is about 50 cents a foot in 12 AWG if you are patient and low ball eBay sellers.

I really wonder, how would m22759/11 12 compare with Duelund DCA 12 AWG which is $19.99 a meter ??? Both are well made, one is copper stranded tin plated, and the other is nicely silver plated, copper stranded ?

The price difference per foot is 50 cents versus $ 19.99 / meter divided by 3.28 feet, or $6.08 a foot. Duelund is 12.16 times more expensive.

My question is this : if the costs were the same, which would sound better ??

Its time for some to experiment....... and listen some !!

Busy with other things at the moment. Regards, best wishes.

Dowto1000

I've been looking at that wire, but haven't seen any in small enough amounts to make it worthwhile to try. It is intriguing though.
 

dowto1000

Junior Member
I've been looking at that wire, but haven't seen any in small enough amounts to make it worthwhile to try. It is intriguing though.


Contact Steve at Apex Jr, in CA. and tell him you want the wire to read m22759/11 on the outer jacket....just so you are sure to get the genuine article, and not something constructed differently, or not passing Military standards. He has various lengths and colors I bet !! ....and not at $6.08 a foot for 12 AWG.

It is beautifully made PM, very high quality. Dennis Fraker used m22759/11 as I describe in 2016 and he nicely he got " best room at show - RMAF " from Stereophile's reviewer, Herb Reichert.

Most will use a single run, amp to speaker, but not me, or Dennis.

Because this is silver plated, it is naturally wider-band than a tin plated wire, so I find I can beneficially use more wire, and get a more efficient transfer of energy, with low powered amps ( music's peaks and dynamics ) without a loss of the higher frequencies.

So, I personally use three 12 AWG ( effectively 7.5 gauge) on a 114 1/4 inch run, amp to VOTT crossovers, for each polarity. From crossover to 15 inch ALTEC woofer ( 515B ) I use two 12 AWG ( effectively 9 AWG ) per polarity - a single 57 1/8th inch Fulton length. From crossover to tweeter ( ALTEC 802D ) I use 16 AWG, a single run, smaller AWG, 57 1/8th inches long - smaller AWG to retain best high end response.

Have fun, I am.

Was up till 1:30 AM last night, listening in awe.

Dowto1000
 

dowto1000

Junior Member
Jeff, they're very different wires regardless of the cost differential.

I haven't used yours but I have experimented with similar wire (silver-plated, stranded copper in PTFE jacket) and I didn't like it much. It was bright and a bit edgy in my system. Your favorite might not be, but on the surface of things it looks like the same kind of stuff and I am not keen to buy any more, even if it's inexpensive. That's my personal opinion and YMMV and all that, of course.

I've used other nice wire, some of it expensive and some very much not so (doorbell wire!) and I determined that I generally don't like silver-plated wire. Silver by itself - very high purity silver - is something different, though; I really like that in many cases.

Teflon has been hit or miss for me too, and I think it has something to do with how it's used as a dielectric. PTFE-sheathed cable I don't like, but solid core wire (silver or copper) in PTFE spaghetti tubing is nice - I think that's actually an air dielectric.

And speaking of wire dielectric (sheath), I think I've fully succumbed to the brainwashings of the ACA (Audiophile Church of the Arcane) -- natural is better. Give me cotton or silk, please! I can't begin to explain why, or use any fancier language to persuade you, but cotton and silk sound more... natural to me than plastics.

Tinned-copper wire was a real surprise to me. Tin seems so... pedestrian that I didn't want to like it. But darn if it ain't really really nice stuff! The Duelund wire is sheathed in church-approved black cotton and oil dielectricum -- it's sexy and it smells kinda funny too, which is cool.

- - - - - - - - -

People like what complements their system . Your report does not surprise me.

Most amps I know of, particularly tube amps and SETs, use a cap input filter after the rectifier, and electrolytic caps on Rk bypasses. ( The " Fi X " 2A3 amplifier that just went for $2600 on eBay is a fine example. ) With a good wide band wire, that amp may "shout" at you. These are easily avoidable amp mis-designs - and are not the best way to go !!

People like Emilar EH-500 horns, which are " real smooth " to go well with their " shouting amp " designs, so as not to offend their ears.

I HATE amps that use a cap input filter, and electrolytic bypasses on Rks, and I will not compromise my wire choice, to match any amp I personally feel is mis designed. I also use all high quality modern film caps in my SETs' power supplies, never electrolytics .

I use a clone of a EH-500 horn, a SHOWCO 9000, on my VOTT A7-800s, and I am bored to death of its lack of dynamic projection for the 802D. I will be replacing it, mid year, I suspect. Its real smooth, precisely what would appeal to a gentleman " New England audiophile ", with a SET that shouts. Sorry, not for me.

I don't doubt your reporting, for one millisecond, and I even think I know why you hear what you hear. I have explained it herein.

So, the question is this :

(1) Is your amp using a cap input filter after the rectifier ( first thing it "sees" - which puts spikes on the B+ ) and

(2) are the Rks ( cathode resistors ) electrolytic bypassed when you were doing your wire evaluations ???

Dennis took " Best Room at Show " RMAF 2016 with the precise wire I suggested. But the amps he used, were designed optimally for audio.

Dowto1000
 
Last edited:

Redboy

Knobophobe
Site Supporter
I don't doubt your reporting, for one millisecond, and I even think I know why you hear what you hear. I have explained it herein.

Is your amp using a cap input filter after the rectifier ( first thing it "sees" - which puts spikes on the B+ ) and are the Rks electrolytic byapassed when you were doing your wire evaluations ???
Nope. And nope. Choke input, and the bypass caps are film.

But don't let that stop you from lobbing other passive aggressive insults, Jeff -- I'm sure you could find dozens of other problems with my inferior system which did not take Best in Show at RMAF 2016. Wrong topology, wrong layout, wrong transformers, wrong output tubes, wrong driver tubes, wrong capacitors, wrong resistors, wrong wires, wrong number of wires, wrong wire lengths, wrong wire gauge, wrong drivers, wrong driver alignment, wrong crossovers, wrong connectors, wrong speakers, wrong placement, wrong damping, wrong brand, wrong horn, wrong wrong wrong...

I know this because you have told me (and others) over and over again. And oddly enough, I've grown tired of it.
 

TubeHiFiNut

Administrator
Site Supporter
Mr. Medwin, I have to say, sir, that I am impressed. You have managed to piss off one of the most easy-going fellows it has ever been my pleasure to know. That is no mean feat.

You must be so proud.

You beat me to it, Ernie.

@dowto1000 - Jeff, "Passive/Aggressive" is a perfect analysis of your posts on this thread directed at @Redboy .

@Prime Minister put you on notice. You know that you are on thin ice with this kind of stuff.

I'm not sure why you keep poking this bear.
 

Olson_jr

Active Member
Site Supporter
I'd like to replace the speaker cable in my system, but while I want something of good quality, I'm not looking to support the manufacturers marketing department too.

So I'm looking for some really high-quality copper cable, that isn't too think. Probably need about 16 feet total.

Any thoughts?

That isn't too think?
 

mfrench

Senior Member
I'm running sprinkler timer cable, 7-conductor(?) with combined colors twisted together.
Sounds alright. I've not been inclined to change it out after 6+ months.
It was an impromptu quick fix, and, it stayed in the line up. They were end cuts from an irrigation timer cabling run that I did.
 

Try1256

Very Special Member
I'm running sprinkler timer cable, 7-conductor(?) with combined colors twisted together.
Sounds alright. I've not been inclined to change it out after 6+ months.
It was an impromptu quick fix, and, it stayed in the line up. They were end cuts from an irrigation timer cabling run that I did.
I went the Cat 5 route for a while. It sounded good to me at first but could be harsh at certain frequencies. I did the whole multiple braid thing that is described on line. Alas, I moved on and am pretty content for the time being.
 

StevenZ

Pending Gold Star Member
I've used the Woods electric cable and some Canare 4S Star Quad as well as Belden, Supra, Cat5 and a while slew of others. For the money and in my system I wouldn't hesitate to use the Woods again over all else, including Grover Huffmans latest.
 
Top