FYI I got scammed using PayPal Friends and Family
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Andyman
Junior Member
I posted the link below to an update about a page back, but as of now the $600 gross transactions is the program for 2023. Sen. Joe Mancin has a bill out there bumping it to a more reasonable $10,000, but there are still way too many unanswered questions. Hopefully, the IRS is preparing a new form to deal with this.
I literally just filed my taxes and checked my 1099-K, as I did sell over $20,000 last year, shipping fees collected are part of the total, and did notice in the interview of the 1099-K that there was a option for sales of personal property. I'll look into that tomorrow and see where it goes, as it could have places in there for costs and shipping expenses already.
www.yahoo.com
BTW, I saw a guy in a FB group offering a $1200 amp and preamp PPFF; he had nothing on his profile but the listing. I reported him to the group admins, but as of a few hours ago the listing was still up.
I ain't touching anything that weak, especially on FB
I literally just filed my taxes and checked my 1099-K, as I did sell over $20,000 last year, shipping fees collected are part of the total, and did notice in the interview of the 1099-K that there was a option for sales of personal property. I'll look into that tomorrow and see where it goes, as it could have places in there for costs and shipping expenses already.
Tax Update: IRS Delays $600 Reporting Threshold for Venmo, PayPal and Third-Party Payment Apps
In what will be great news before the end of the year for small business owners and millions of Americans, the Internal Revenue Service (IRS) announced it would delay the implementation of the tax...
I ain't touching anything that weak, especially on FB
240sx4u
Technically It's LexusGuy
I posted the link below to an update about a page back, but as of now the $600 gross transactions is the program for 2023. Sen. Joe Mancin has a bill out there bumping it to a more reasonable $10,000, but there are still way too many unanswered questions. Hopefully, the IRS is preparing a new form to deal with this.
I literally just filed my taxes and checked my 1099-K, as I did sell over $20,000 last year, shipping fees collected are part of the total, and did notice in the interview of the 1099-K that there was a option for sales of personal property. I'll look into that tomorrow and see where it goes, as it could have places in there for costs and shipping expenses already.
BTW, I saw a guy in a FB group offering a $1200 amp and preamp PPFF; he had nothing on his profile but the listing. I reported him to the group admins, but as of a few hours ago the listing was still up.Tax Update: IRS Delays $600 Reporting Threshold for Venmo, PayPal and Third-Party Payment Apps
In what will be great news before the end of the year for small business owners and millions of Americans, the Internal Revenue Service (IRS) announced it would delay the implementation of the tax...
I ain't touching anything that weak, especially on FB
Please keep us updated.
They’re going to ruin this hobby. Sad. I don’t think many of us make a living doing this. It’s a hobby that allows us to safely play with things that can push our budgets. So bummed about this silly move. Anyway…
I recently purchased a big Parasound amp that got damaged. I sent the funds F&F. I knew good and well the risk, but I spoke to the guy for a long time over the phone and he was great. Another hobbyist, like myself. While being a really great guy, he happened to suck at shipping.
It was a scary month or so while we worked through FedEx, even though his packing job made the pursuit pointless. In the end, he took the destroyed amp back and I was out only return shipping. $2000! Lesson learned.
It’s not always about how great the guy is. When it comes to figures like that, someone can have a change of heart. I got lucky and I walked away with some hope for humanity. Lol. But I’ll never send F&F again unless that person happens to be friends or family.
I don’t want to be a pessimist. I’d like to trust people. I’m not active here, really, but I recognize half of you all from AK or from forums I’ve been reading for the past 20 years. There are some good players out there that aren’t going to damage their reputation for a quick buck. A community to trade with like we have here is amazing. PayPal fees are a small price to pay, in the end, to keep a free marketplace safe.
Andyman
Junior Member
OK. I poked around on TurboTax and found this for a contrived $1500 1099-K from the sale of "Personal Items"
"How do I enter personal item sales that were included on this 1099-K?
We’ve collected your 1099-K information, but you’ll need to add more info about your sale in another section.
If you sold your personal item(s) for a gain, then you’ll need to pay short or long term capital gains tax on it, depending on how long you held the item. This is why you should enter each item separately and not net them together."
So some takeaways...
They screw us on loss credits, but there will be no positive to carry forward as taxable income from the sale. I expected this to be the case.
They are looking at them as long term or short term gains last year. IDK if that will hold true in the future, but if they do, it accrues as non-business income and not subject to FICA or Medicare withholding, which is good.
So in a less Draconian world, where some reason still exists, I would expect that most folks selling personal goods won't be challenged for receipts on the JBL L-100s you bought back in 1972, but at the current market prices, I bet you will show a profit over the $576/pair plus tax you paid.
"How do I enter personal item sales that were included on this 1099-K?
We’ve collected your 1099-K information, but you’ll need to add more info about your sale in another section.
- Select Continue on this screen.
- On the Your 1099-K Summary screen, select Done.
- From the Income Landing table, navigate to Investment topics, and select Start or Revisit for "Stocks, Cryptocurrency, Mutual Funds, Bonds, Other (1099-B).
- Go to Investments and Savings (1099-B, 1099-INT, 1099-DIV, 1099-K, Crypto) on the Income & Expenses screen. Select Edit/Add.
- On Your Investments and Savings Summary screen, you’ll see a line item for your 1099-K income. Select Edit or Reviewand enter the information for the first personal sale item.
- Be sure to select Personal Items under the What type of investment did you sell?
- The Cost or other basis amount should be the amount you originally paid for the item.
- Select Continue when you’re finished to go to the Review your Salesscreen.
- If there was more than one personal item sale included in the 1099-K amount, select Add another sale to add each item.
- If not, you can Continue.
If you sold your personal item(s) for a gain, then you’ll need to pay short or long term capital gains tax on it, depending on how long you held the item. This is why you should enter each item separately and not net them together."
So some takeaways...
They screw us on loss credits, but there will be no positive to carry forward as taxable income from the sale. I expected this to be the case.
They are looking at them as long term or short term gains last year. IDK if that will hold true in the future, but if they do, it accrues as non-business income and not subject to FICA or Medicare withholding, which is good.
So in a less Draconian world, where some reason still exists, I would expect that most folks selling personal goods won't be challenged for receipts on the JBL L-100s you bought back in 1972, but at the current market prices, I bet you will show a profit over the $576/pair plus tax you paid.
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He's asking a question on US tax implications.
Yes Sir, I have been following the conversation.
I still hold my statement though. If somebody gifts me something, it just goes against my grain to "sell " it.
I would pass it on again if I had no need for it.
The US tax system I must admit ( knowing little about it obviously ) is VERY confusing.
Sort of " Blinded by Science " . If its not written there, we will add that clause just for you. So to speak.
I even find it very obtrusive for the gummit to even ask to be frank.
Joe
I still hold my statement though. If somebody gifts me something, it just goes against my grain to "sell " it.
I would pass it on again if I had no need for it.
The US tax system I must admit ( knowing little about it obviously ) is VERY confusing.
Sort of " Blinded by Science " . If its not written there, we will add that clause just for you. So to speak.
I even find it very obtrusive for the gummit to even ask to be frank.
Joe
Andyman
Junior Member
You had no cost, so no cost basis and the full amount of the sale as income I would guess. But that is an exceptionally rare case.
Edit. Too dark. Sorry.
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This thread has gone to some ugly places.
Let’s recap the important bits:
Setting aside why they may or may not feel justified, some sellers would rather use PayPal without paying for it, asking for “Friends and Family” so their transactions are not classified as a sale by PayPal.
Doing so defrauds PayPal, and removes pretty much all buyer protections. HiFi Haven, quite sensibly, does not allow sellers to advertise “Friends and Family” as a payment method and does not condone the activity.
The problem with sellers wanting to skirt official channels is markedly worse in 2023, because unless the law is changed, all online payment systems must now issue 1099-K tax forms for US individuals clearing more than $600 in sales in a calendar year.
The degree to which a buyer is willing to jettison buyer protections and help the seller to skirt PayPal fees and tax obligation will be directly proportional to the buyer’s trust in the seller and appetite for inherently shady dealings.
On paper, it’s not even a complicated choice for the buyer.
But every outlaw fiber of my body says it’s far from cut and dried.
While taxes are due any time goods are sold for a profit in the US, individual small-scale sellers on the internet have often been an extension of the functionally untaxed “informal economy”. Having to suddenly “go legit” may be logistically challenging, philosophically distasteful, grossly inconvenient, or even economically ruinous. Certainly, the new law will drastically change the landscape for US buyers and sellers of used hobby items and collectibles.
Good luck out there, folks. Don’t take no plug nickels.
Let’s recap the important bits:
Setting aside why they may or may not feel justified, some sellers would rather use PayPal without paying for it, asking for “Friends and Family” so their transactions are not classified as a sale by PayPal.
Doing so defrauds PayPal, and removes pretty much all buyer protections. HiFi Haven, quite sensibly, does not allow sellers to advertise “Friends and Family” as a payment method and does not condone the activity.
The problem with sellers wanting to skirt official channels is markedly worse in 2023, because unless the law is changed, all online payment systems must now issue 1099-K tax forms for US individuals clearing more than $600 in sales in a calendar year.
The degree to which a buyer is willing to jettison buyer protections and help the seller to skirt PayPal fees and tax obligation will be directly proportional to the buyer’s trust in the seller and appetite for inherently shady dealings.
On paper, it’s not even a complicated choice for the buyer.
But every outlaw fiber of my body says it’s far from cut and dried.
While taxes are due any time goods are sold for a profit in the US, individual small-scale sellers on the internet have often been an extension of the functionally untaxed “informal economy”. Having to suddenly “go legit” may be logistically challenging, philosophically distasteful, grossly inconvenient, or even economically ruinous. Certainly, the new law will drastically change the landscape for US buyers and sellers of used hobby items and collectibles.
Good luck out there, folks. Don’t take no plug nickels.
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I buy and sell a decent amount of hi-fi because it’s a lot of fun to try new gear, especially gear I couldn’t afford if I wasn’t dealing to support my habit. Seeking out gear “under the money” is still a thrill for me, and fires off the same dopamine receptors as, say, gambling. As vices go, it could be worse.
My personal philosophy is that the big online markets (eBay, Reverb, USAM, Audiogon) set “market value”. That’s what you can realistically expect when you take decent pictures, write decent copy, and can expose the ad to an international pool of buyers. The house typically takes a healthy cut, and the deck may be stacked against sellers when it comes to fraud.
Selling locally via Craigslist or FB marketplace, it’s foolhardy to expect more than 50-66% of “market value” in most markets.
Floating somewhere between, you’ve got venues like hobbyist FB buy/sell groups and swap pages for various forums.
A seller negotiating for an under-the-table cash/check/MO/PP F&F/etc. sale may suddenly find that the savvy buyer has new leverage.
A local sale saves the seller the trouble of shipping, any fees (which may be as much as 15%), the trouble of reporting it on their taxes, figuring out their tax burden based on purchase price, and sending a theoretical 10-50% of the sale to Uncle Sam, depending on state and tax bracket.
Could be good times for savvy cash buyers, for reasons both practical and FUD-based.
My personal philosophy is that the big online markets (eBay, Reverb, USAM, Audiogon) set “market value”. That’s what you can realistically expect when you take decent pictures, write decent copy, and can expose the ad to an international pool of buyers. The house typically takes a healthy cut, and the deck may be stacked against sellers when it comes to fraud.
Selling locally via Craigslist or FB marketplace, it’s foolhardy to expect more than 50-66% of “market value” in most markets.
Floating somewhere between, you’ve got venues like hobbyist FB buy/sell groups and swap pages for various forums.
A seller negotiating for an under-the-table cash/check/MO/PP F&F/etc. sale may suddenly find that the savvy buyer has new leverage.
A local sale saves the seller the trouble of shipping, any fees (which may be as much as 15%), the trouble of reporting it on their taxes, figuring out their tax burden based on purchase price, and sending a theoretical 10-50% of the sale to Uncle Sam, depending on state and tax bracket.
Could be good times for savvy cash buyers, for reasons both practical and FUD-based.
I've used "local" and "cash" and "today" as leverage to get many good deals on local buys. It's worked even better since this whole F&F thing... frequent sellers have been much more eager to just get things done locally without a fuss. Far from feeling like I'm taking advantage of anybody, they've all been happy exchanges... the sellers are not losing out on much when shipping, insurance, any tax burden, and ebay/etc fees are taken out of the equation. Plus I've met some real characters lately. And in one instance I went to buy a MCM lamp and ended up buying other stuff at a great price that the seller had but hadn't listed.
The downside is that this really works well in big markets and not so well in smaller ones. But yes, agree... it's shifted the landscape a bit but depending on where you are and what your market looks like, its not all terrible.
Hey my friend don't feel like the Lone Ranger! I was ripped off by a guy named Oliver Sayes, called it a restocking fee!! Failed to mention it when he said to send the amp back to him!!!
Hi,
I'm a new guy here but I'll share my story. If you must up a WTB ad up (they are a flag for scammers) make it clear that it's standard protection PayPal only and that you'll pay the PP fee. There will then be no rational reason to not use standard PP.
