Meadowlark Little Wings

The Little Wings flew to my nest about a week ago. Thank you, Pat, for seeing them off with such care. Each bird was wrapped in plastic and rested in generous nests of styrofoam within a thick box. They arrived in perfect condition. The first thing I noticed once unboxed was the workmanship. I've followed Pat's build threads, so I know his enclosures are MDF clad in a wood veneer skin. The edges are crisp. Precise. There are no gaps on any edge. No glue. Just perfect seams that make them look like they might have been hewn for solid blocks. The rear recess that accepts the MiniDSP panel is also perfect. There are no over cuts at the corners and the depth of the plates are perfectly uniform left to right; top to bottom. The grills are made up of a thin black mesh screen covering a stout frame that uses magnets to adhere themselves to the recessed slots milled into the fronts of each enclosure. The close tolerances absolutely give away the fact these Little Wings were born from the hands of true craftsmen. In short. I love them. They're beautiful. I'll post some pictures soon.

For anyone unfamiliar with the Little Wings, they're a product of Pat's newish philosophy of less is more and adjust to fit you. Less is more in that there's no need for an external amp or preamp. There's already an amp in each speaker. You can add a preamp if you'd like, but if you're streaming... no need. Clean and simple. Adjust to fit you in that each speaker can be adjusted via the MiniDSP program to fit your specific environment.

I plugged them in and connected them to my network via RJ45 cables and a switch. I downloaded and installed the MiniDSP program on a Windows 10 laptop and on an iPad. I've been able see the speakers via the program, but Pat's already provided 4 preset profiles and I'm not going to change anything until I can have a good long listen. The location where I envision these two little beauties doesn't have a wired network connection anywhere near it, so I'm about to order a smallish WiFi extender that'll tie into my main WiFi router. I'll use tablets to access my music library and output to the speakers. Initially I won't be connecting a turntable or a CD transport; though, that may change later. I'll post pictures of the setup once it is.
 
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So? How do they sound? :)
Embarrassingly enough, don't know yet. Ordered the WiFi extender and XLR adapter, but it'll be a few days till they arrive. Won't be able to get a streamer for a few weeks. I may just have to hook up the CD transport or phono till I can get the streamer. Pat was damned helpful this morning via PM. I now have a much better handle on what I need to do. He mentioned you have a Blue Sound streamer. Any chance you could tell me more about it and how you're using it?
 
So, life has been... it’s been a roller coaster. My son graduating high school sans ceremony, Jazz Band comp season cancelled, multiple trips cancelled, and more... just like everyone else in these Covid days. Folks three states away, in their 80’s not doing well, driving there in the RV this summer while avoiding contact with anyone and finding out their meds were out of control and staying extra weeks to get that sorted out. But, and this might sound trivial, but my dog passed, Sounds like a friggin’ country song. Him passing was crushing. He’s my avatar. I can’t express how much that hurt. I have a loaner dog, but that needs another thread.

Work has been sparse this year, so I’ve had to prioritize spending. I’m not poor. Just have to prioritize. I finally popped for a WiFi extender with enough RJ45 jacks that I should be able to make this work (one for each speaker and one for the the streamer). And, it seems to be working in the spot I need it to. I’ve decided that the BlueSound Vault 2i is the best component to do what I want. It’ll allow me to stream, rip and play cd’s, connect my turntable and preamp, and control it from a tablet or phone. I’ve looked at everything I can find and I think this is the most cost effective solution. Still... it’s $1,299, so for me... it’s a big stretch. I signed up for BlueSound’ marketing emails, but they never seem to go on sale. I’m hoping to get it soon, but we’ll see. I’ve been blessed with a bit of patience. I KNOW I’ll get it eventually. Sorry this is taking so long. I owe you guys pictures too.
 
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So, life has been... it’s been a roller coaster. My son graduating high school sans ceremony, Jazz Band comp season cancelled, multiple trips cancelled, and more... just like everyone else in these Covid days. Folks three states away, in their 80’s not doing well, driving there in the RV this summer while avoiding contact with anyone and finding out their meds were out of control and staying extra weeks to get that sorted out. But, and this might sound trivial, but my dog passed, Sounds like a friggin’ country song. Him passing was crushing. He’s my avatar. I can’t express how much that hurt. I have a loaner dog, but that needs another thread.

So very sorry to hear about the passing of your pup. Nothing trivial about it. I know how soul crushing that can be. Good to hear that the loaner dog is on-site. Take care.
 
Sorry for your loss (big dog lover here too).....and for everything else happening. I’ve put my audio plans on hold along with any purchases more than once, due to the uncertainty of everything going on. Life will throw you curve balls but be patient and don’t swing.....the good pitches will come soon.
 
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So, life has been... it’s been a roller coaster. My son graduating high school sans ceremony, Jazz Band comp season cancelled, multiple trips cancelled, and more... just like everyone else in these Covid days. Folks three states away, in their 80’s not doing well, driving there in the RV this summer while avoiding contact with anyone and finding out their meds were out of control and staying extra weeks to get that sorted out. But, and this might sound trivial, but my dog passed, Sounds like a friggin’ country song. Him passing was crushing. He’s my avatar. I can’t express how much that hurt. I have a loaner dog, but that needs another thread.

Agree with Kpatch; there is nothing trivial about losing a pet. We've only had our puppy for 4 weeks, but my bond with and love for the little, mischievous, goof is greater than I imagined it would be.
 
Thank you, gentlemen. Much appreciated. Sometime, someplace here, I’ll share more of the story and introduce the new pup. There a few gears still in motion before he’s ours, but I’m fairly certain the loaner pup will stay.

In other stereo related news, a Vault 2i popped up today that seemed a very good bargain. I’ve not seen one this inexpensive and I’ve been looking for months. After a bit of Q&A with the seller, my concerns were satisfied. So, I made an offer that was accepted. It’s used and I paid about 55% of retail. That, I could do now. Once here... I believe that I’ll finally have all that I need to make these Little Wings sing 🎶 Pretty exited.
 
The Bluesound Vault 2i arrived today. I had everything else set up and waiting. Plugged it in, went through the setup procedure, plugged in the speaker output and analog in for the TT. The Little Wings are working! I still have some tuning to do. The Left Right balance is off by a country mile, but I'm certain that was from me mucking with it a few months back. I'll have to figure out how to unscrew that. Pretty excited right now. I've been waiting for this day for quite some time...
 
So these things are pretty bad ass. Especially if you like to tweak with your gear. With a tube amp, we change the way our rig sounds by rolling tubes, which can get stupid expensive really fast. Don't get me wrong. I love my tube amp. But, with these you open a configuration program on your computer and make any changes you want. FOR FREE! How is that not the coolest thing?

It's pretty safe and easy too. @Pat McGinty sent me copies of the configuration files for the left and right speaker that he had created. I loaded them to each speaker using the MiniDSP configuration program. The program allows me to load/change/save up to 4 configurations per speaker. So, for instance, I loaded his configuration for the left speaker to each of the 4 configuration tabs for the left speaker. I then used Pat's naming scheme consisting of date-speaker position-config position ( 103020L1.xml ) and created a file for each configuration tab. Again, the left speaker has four files:

Config 1 = 103020L1.xml
Config 2 = 103020L2.xml
Config 3 = 103020L3.xml
Config 4 = 103020L4.xml


I'll leave Config 1 (Pat's settings) alone to use as a baseline. I also saved Pat's original config files to another directory, so they are safe. Now I can tweak the configuration, make changes, save, reload Config 2, 3 and 4 as many times as I like.

Don't get me wrong. I have absolutely no idea what I'm doing. But, that's the beauty of this. I can change and tweak things at no cost and see where it takes me. I do have to be careful with the input levels so that I don't break a woofer or a tweeter, so I won't mess much with those. His video is really good (How to get started with minidsp PWR-ICE 125 and 250). Now I need him to do another one that talks more about crossover design, or what we'd want to change, and why.
 
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I've had the Little wings hooked up and running for about a week now. First, I owe you guys pictures...

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I broke down my main rig here in the family room and added the LWs on top of the stands I'd built about a year ago. The New Vault 2i on the top left of the stand is connected straight into the left LW. My TT preamp connects to the Vault. There are several different ways that I can hook this together. I'll begin doing some experiments soon.

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These are good and heavy. Very stout. The gaps between the enclosure and magnetic grills are nonexistent. There aren't any. I also love the corners. I can't find any end grain at the corners. These weren't slapped together. They took time. Somebody was being meticulous.

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Speaker grill off; although, after my grand nephew poked the cone of my Swift I always keep the grills on now. :tongue:

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This is the back side of grills. These are perfectly black. What looks like staining is actually the tile behind it. The frames have built in magnets that attach the grill to the speaker. Very elegant IMO. Although I have no intention to doing so anytime soon, it would be really easy to replace the grill material and change the look of the speaker.

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And here's the rear panel. At some point, once I'm done playing with the sound adjustments I could eliminate the RJ45 cable. For now I'm keeping it.

After having these running for a week now I have to admit... I've not been able to find a better sound setting than the one loaded by @Pat McGinty at his workshop. You're good at what you do, Pat. I'm not done playing yet! As I've begun to understand more about the inputs for these speakers and the outputs on the Vault 2i... there seems to be several ways that I could connect all this together. My initial decisions were based on keeping this as simple as possible, so I'm not using a DAC or a preamp as a source selector (I am using a phono preamp into the Vault). Right now I'm using only the digital input on the left speaker.

As I've gotten to know the MiniDSP program better I've discovered there's a ton about speaker design/adjustment I know absolutely nothing about. It still hasn't stopped me from changing values, sliding control slides, inverting the whatchamacallit thingy etc. As mentioned in a previous post... it's impossible to permanently screw the setting up. I can always reload Pat's initial setting files and I'm back to how he shipped them to me.

I need my wife to go back to work or take a vacation so I can give these babies some power and see what they really have in them. I'd like to spend a few hours tuning at volume.
 
A few things I've learned lately...

The MiniDSP app for iOS and Android isn't very intuitive. I've been able to use it, see the speakers, select a speaker, and link the other speaker to it. Once this is done... in theory... I should be able to control the volume for both speakers from a single control. Problem seems to be that this linking procedure needs to be done on every device I'd want to use as a remote. Still trying to figure out if this has to be done every time I start the app, or just once. Also, not clear... do I link left to right, or right to left? Probably doesn't matter, but I can't find that mentioned in any of the documentation. I can change the presets from within the app, which is nice. In other words Preset1 for Pat's workshop settings, or Preset2, 3, or 4 for my experimental settings.

But, can't for the life of me find where I can switch between inputs (Digital or Analog). This would be really useful were I to wire my turntable straight into the analog input on the speaker bypassing the Bluesound Vault 2i. Wait... now that I think about it... I could quite possibly and almost definitely do this by modifying the input on Preset2, 3, or 4 and saving that to the speaker. I'd just have to remember which Preset I'd assigned the Analog input to. The more I think about it... this is going to be the answer.

I've gotta make this thing super easy for the wife to use, or I'll never hear the end of it. So, today I ordered the remote control from MiniDSP. All in including delivery only set me back $29 USD. If she can quickly adjust the volume or mute the entire system instantly, AND switch between sources without having to find her phone. open the app, wait for the devices to populate... well, that'll be BIG win with a small price tag.

The MiniDSP app (iOS or Android) is completely different from the main Power ICE configuration program (Windows or Mac). You cannot change any configuration settings whatsoever from within the MiniDSP app. You can only toggle between saved Presets. In order to change the configuration contained in those Presets.. you have to do that from within the Power ICE configuration program. Once you've changed anything there you can then save those changes to any one of the four Preset buttons. Now... you can access those preset buttons from any device with the MiniDSP app that's connected to your network, or the remote control.

My point is... if you want to do any tuning to your speakers... you'll need your desktop in the same room as your speakers, or better yet... a laptop (I'm using a laptop). A desktop in another room isn't going to get you very far and the phone or tablet app won't get you there at all.

MiniDSP App = Clunky volume control and mute, switch between presets, but no preset configuration capability.
Power ICE program = Complete configuration control.

The Power ICE program is very powerful allowing for complete control over... well, just about everything. That's the challenge of it. The manual is ~54 pages and the configuration program section runs from page 22 to 45. Not long by any stretch, but much of the terminology is completely new to me. So, I'm having to spend time looking up terms. There's no glossary included.

Don't take any of this a complaints. This is all new territory to me. Since this is my first foray into the world of DSP, I thought I'd chronicle a few thoughts as I blaze the trail..
 
Sorry I haven't visited this week, got caught sideways early on.

Thanks for all of the nice comments. Yeah, the minidsp UI can be a bit tricky. In it's defense I'd say it's one of the first examples of a UI that can be used by non-engineers. But, yeah, it can feel like the first time you tried to use a smartphone.

The system was designed to be used with a software volume controlled source. It can be used in other ways including analog but, as you can see, those are less convenient. For analog, it's probably easier to keep the preamp for volume.

The network idea comes from the pro side, where this tech originated. They use it to control large numbers of speakers, raise and lower the volume of a large complicated system. I suspect that the next generation from minidsp will have a wireless network connection.

Minidsp really set the bar with that UI, but that was a few years ago. Hypex just fired back with one that simplifies the controls by locking the user out of the "guts". So the user sees something more familiar, but can't get at the "guts" without the password.

They've also departed from network control to USB for programming, then IR remote for vol, input and presets. That's always been thought of as a bad idea because the speakers' volume settings will, right away, get out of synch, a problem that reinforced the choice of network connection. Hypex has cleverly solved it by sending a repeating code piggybacked on the SPDIF connection. That cleans things up, wire wise, but now you have another remote.
 
Thanks, Pat. I like having full control. Don't know that I'd want to give that up. How's it go? With great power comes great responsibility. 😆

It's just going to take some time. One thing I learned while working on race cars was... one adjustment at a time. Change it, drive it, evaluate. So, although I have many things I can control, I've been trying one at a time to see what my ears tell me. I did print out the manual and I keep it next to me so I can refer to it while I'm making changes. It's helpful, but only in that it labels an adjustment and points out that I can. Doesn't really explain what or why. It's ok. I'll get it figured out. Another thing I found useful is the MiniDSP Forum. They have a sub-forum dedicated to the Power ICE 125 and 250 (mine are the 250s). What I discovered is that these have been around for several years now. I also discovered that it's best to start at the first thread created and then move forward towards today. It seems many of the questions I have have been asked by people way back at the beginning of this product line. The most recent posts get much more specific and require a higher level of understanding and comfort with the product than I currently posses.

I ordered new 10ft power cords. The ones that came with the speakers work perfectly, but I'd like to experiment with placement; the magic triangle dimensions, and longer cords will give me more flexibility to do that. Also picked up a longer balanced XLR cable for the same purpose. The manual didn't provide much clarification about balanced vs unbalanced, so I looked it up. And, there doesn't seem to be any agreement on length. One article says unbalanced is best for lengths under 10ft and another says you can go as long as 20ft. I went 20 and chose balanced. It was inexpensive, so if I'm wrong... no biggie.

I've also discovered that many users invest in a calibrated microphone like the MiniDSP Umik-1. This coupled with free Room EQ Wizard (REW) software apparently allows you to see exactly what's happening in the room you're set up in, so you get an accurate picture of what your sound is doing and the changes you should make. They're not too bad at $75, but before I invest in that I think it makes better sense to get a handle on the controls first.

So, how do these even sound? They sound really good. They definitely have both dimension and range. The soundstage is fun to hear, but I think I can improve it even more with placement. Sitting in chair in front of them is really enjoyable. Walking though the house or kitchen using them for music at volume seems a bit too high. I'm not sure how to describe this right. They seem top heavy in that I'd like to calm the highs down and increase the mids and/or the bass. I'm still trying to figure out if I should just concentrate on the L/R tweeter, which I think is correct, but then what? Do I start with PEQ, Xover, Comp, or Delay? On cars caster and camber are adjusted first. Sometime correcting caster will take care of camber at the same time. Dunno how it works with speakers yet.

Anyway, like I said... it'll be a journey. I think I've learned enough to at least know what to ask now. I'll post again once I've experimented some more. 👍
 
Thanks, Pat. I like having full control. Don't know that I'd want to give that up. How's it go? With great power comes great responsibility. 😆

It's just going to take some time. One thing I learned while working on race cars was... one adjustment at a time. Change it, drive it, evaluate. So, although I have many things I can control, I've been trying one at a time to see what my ears tell me. I did print out the manual and I keep it next to me so I can refer to it while I'm making changes. It's helpful, but only in that it labels an adjustment and points out that I can. Doesn't really explain what or why. It's ok. I'll get it figured out. Another thing I found useful is the MiniDSP Forum. They have a sub-forum dedicated to the Power ICE 125 and 250 (mine are the 250s). What I discovered is that these have been around for several years now. I also discovered that it's best to start at the first thread created and then move forward towards today. It seems many of the questions I have have been asked by people way back at the beginning of this product line. The most recent posts get much more specific and require a higher level of understanding and comfort with the product than I currently posses.

I ordered new 10ft power cords. The ones that came with the speakers work perfectly, but I'd like to experiment with placement; the magic triangle dimensions, and longer cords will give me more flexibility to do that. Also picked up a longer balanced XLR cable for the same purpose. The manual didn't provide much clarification about balanced vs unbalanced, so I looked it up. And, there doesn't seem to be any agreement on length. One article says unbalanced is best for lengths under 10ft and another says you can go as long as 20ft. I went 20 and chose balanced. It was inexpensive, so if I'm wrong... no biggie.

I've also discovered that many users invest in a calibrated microphone like the MiniDSP Umik-1. This coupled with free Room EQ Wizard (REW) software apparently allows you to see exactly what's happening in the room you're set up in, so you get an accurate picture of what your sound is doing and the changes you should make. They're not too bad at $75, but before I invest in that I think it makes better sense to get a handle on the controls first.

So, how do these even sound? They sound really good. They definitely have both dimension and range. The soundstage is fun to hear, but I think I can improve it even more with placement. Sitting in chair in front of them is really enjoyable. Walking though the house or kitchen using them for music at volume seems a bit too high. I'm not sure how to describe this right. They seem top heavy in that I'd like to calm the highs down and increase the mids and/or the bass. I'm still trying to figure out if I should just concentrate on the L/R tweeter, which I think is correct, but then what? Do I start with PEQ, Xover, Comp, or Delay? On cars caster and camber are adjusted first. Sometime correcting caster will take care of camber at the same time. Dunno how it works with speakers yet.

Anyway, like I said... it'll be a journey. I think I've learned enough to at least know what to ask now. I'll post again once I've experimented some more. 👍
It's pretty easy to change one of the Output levels so, first, check it against the original file.

That speaker should definitely not sound thin.

Then try just lowering the tweeter level. That setting is somewhat venue sensitive. I set systems up in a room that is not lively at all, so you want to take control. Too hot treble ain't so hot, just me, better soft than hot.

Another approach is to make a high shelf, a gentle first order cornered at the upper midrange, with a little neg gain.
 
So, @Pat McGinty what's shocking about what you just wrote... is that I understand it, I’m sorry. I just find that funny. Thin. Good term. So bottom heavy, which is a term I think I’ve seen, would be the opposite? Too bass?

Anyway, thanks for the tips. I’ll try them and let you know what I find! 👊
 
I have to say that the lexicon used in audio to describe how things sound is a weird corner of the universe.
Sly smile here. I don’t want to denigrate those in the know. People are passionate about hobbies. Me too, so I get it. But, I’m spread so thin I can’t keep up with it all. I’ve read reviews. That’s how I found Meadowlark. Just seems writers use different terms to describe the same things that I can’t ever keep straight. I feel like an idiot trying to explain things cause I’m consistently using the wrong terminology. It’s ok. I’ve become somewhat comfortable in my obtuseness. Thank you, sincerely, for your understanding. I’m away from my Wings for a few days. Can’t wait to try your tip!
 
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