Motors that got your inner motor running

Deli

Deli

A few recent discussions had me rethinking about my decades-past fascination with motors and vehicles. I remember pouring over technical illustrations of experimental cars (Vector, 60’s and 70’s proposed mid-engine Corvette proposals) and the fascination with motors as the years went by and clever technology permeated the industry. I imagine it had always been there, but by the early 70’s with the oil embargo and emissions restrictions taking foot, things were getting interesting on a tangible level.

A few favorites were the Corvette LT5 motor (with Lotus influence), the Honda NR500 and 750 motorcycle motor incorporating oval pistons PLUS two connecting rods and eight valves per cylinder, and no specific engine, but the experimental use of engine and engine parts made of ceramic, through the early 80’s and into the 90’s.

In practical engines, I would have discussion turn to various straight six motors- the long lasting AMC/Jeep unit and the Dodge/Plymouth/Chrysler “slant six” line. Neither that advanced, but good design execution. Same to be said for the BMW’s straight six motor- not as spritely at advanced as the M3 four bangers, but a great engine nonetheless, and one I still admire. Oh- and let’s not forget the VW VR6- a squashed-sized motor sporting a V engine configuration squashed into a narrower, staggered semi-straight six shape. I used to be able to take this pair of GTIs on work assignments- a burnt Orange 1.8t turbo four cylinder and a metallic nature green VR6. Both were a blast, but I had a thing for the VR6.

A throwback motor- the Vincent company’s V-twin. To think when this motor was designed (1940s), and how 20 years later Egli was reworking the frame to handle the motor and turning out formidable machines, to it’s collector status and real world drivability today. And while performance that’s perhaps not exotic superbike level 70+ Years on, it’s absolutely nothing to scoff at.

Of course there are plenty more motors out there worth discussing- the mid century Chrysler turbine, the Wankel rotary, a few heart-shaped three valve engines Honda made- the list could be expansive.

with that said, what were some of your favorites? Anything goes- from a humble and reliable engine to an ultra exotic experiment. I’m interested in seeing where this goes.
 
Deli said:
A few recent discussions had me rethinking about my decades-past fascination with motors and vehicles. I remember pouring over technical illustrations of experimental cars (Vector, 60’s and 70’s proposed mid-engine Corvette proposals) and the fascination with motors as the years went by and clever technology permeated the industry. I imagine it had always been there, but by the early 70’s with the oil embargo and emissions restrictions taking foot, things were getting interesting on a tangible level.

A few favorites were the Corvette LT5 motor (with Lotus influence), the Honda NR500 and 750 motorcycle motor incorporating oval pistons PLUS two connecting rods and eight valves per cylinder, and no specific engine, but the experimental use of engine and engine parts made of ceramic, through the early 80’s and into the 90’s.

In practical engines, I would have discussion turn to various straight six motors- the long lasting AMC/Jeep unit and the Dodge/Plymouth/Chrysler “slant six” line. Neither that advanced, but good design execution. Same to be said for the BMW’s straight six motor- not as spritely at advanced as the M3 four bangers, but a great engine nonetheless, and one I still admire. Oh- and let’s not forget the VW VR6- a squashed-sized motor sporting a V engine configuration squashed into a narrower, staggered semi-straight six shape. I used to be able to take this pair of GTIs on work assignments- a burnt Orange 1.8t turbo four cylinder and a metallic nature green VR6. Both were a blast, but I had a thing for the VR6.

A throwback motor- the Vincent company’s V-twin. To think when this motor was designed (1940s), and how 20 years later Egli was reworking the frame to handle the motor and turning out formidable machines, to it’s collector status and real world drivability today. And while performance that’s perhaps not exotic superbike level 70+ Years on, it’s absolutely nothing to scoff at.

Of course there are plenty more motors out there worth discussing- the mid century Chrysler turbine, the Wankel rotary, a few heart-shaped three valve engines Honda made- the list could be expansive.

with that said, what were some of your favorites? Anything goes- from a humble and reliable engine to an ultra exotic experiment. I’m interested in seeing where this goes.
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I remember when I first started working at Chrysler's Jeep and Truck engineering facility in Detroit in 1989, I couldn't believe they were still using a straight 6. I mean c'mon, nearly everything else from the Detroit automakers were using V6's. But then I drove one. The 4.0L inline 6 in the Jeeps was a great engine. Lots of torque and an all round good performer. I had 2 Jeep Cherokees in the 90's with that engine.

My first car was a 1971 Dodge Demon with the 225 cu. in. slant-six. That motor was nigh indestructible. The car was first our family car, then my sisters first car, then my brother's, and then finally mine. Needless to say, us kids didn't take great care of it, and I remember oftentimes i would forget to add oil (it burned a bit) until the light came on when I went around curves. Perfect first engine for a novice driver.
 
Hmmmm.
I'll have to think about this some.

Low hanging fruit:
The LT5. Easily the best exotic car engine ever built. As spectacular in design as anything from any of the high end manufacturers, but ridiculously overbuilt. The highest mileage one I know of was well over 450,000 miles, and that was last spring. And that is without an overhaul or rebuild. Or the fact that it could, in stock form, do 24 hours at an average of over 175 mph. That was a right out of the factory engine, with only the catalytic converters removed. It's the engine Ferrari or Lamborghini would build, if they could afford to, or if they cared about reliability. Which anyone familiar with those cars know that they don't.
Sadly, I think it was wasted in the ZR-1. And I say this as a ZR-1 owner. GM should have also put it into a price no object, mid engined super and an ultimate Caddy luxury sedan. One of the joys of the LT5 is that, even with all of the power, it had tons of torque, and is as smooth and vibration free as a Jaguar V12. But, sadly, GM was in one of its most myopic eras, and killed it way too soon.
There was a Gen 3 LT5 just about ready to start running, that would have produced an honest 500hp, with the same longevity and reliability, in 1993! With variable valve timing and grear economy and emissions. Sadly, GM put the kibosh on it, but one was built 20 years later from leftover parts, and hit all of their performance expectations.

Edit: To clarify, the LT5 was designed by GM and Lotus, based on a Lotus design. Most of the heavy lifting was done at Hethel, in England. Manufacturing was done by Mercury Marine in Stillwater, OK.
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The Auto Union V-16 from their pre-war Grand Prix cars do it for me every time. And the BMW R57 blower bike that shows up at Goodwood regularly. Wonderful pieces of machinery.
 
prime minister said:
Hmmmm.
I'll have to think about this some.

Low hanging fruit:
The LT5. Easily the best exotic car engine ever built. As spectacular in design as anything from any of the high end manufacturers, but ridiculously overbuilt. The highest mileage one I know of was well over 450,000 miles, and that was last spring. And that is without an overhaul or rebuild. Or the fact that it could, in stock form, do 24 hours at an average of over 175 mph. That was a right out of the factory engine, with only the catalytic converters removed. It's the engine Ferrari or Lamborghini would build, if they could afford to, or if they cared about reliability. Which anyone familiar with those cars know that they don't.
Sadly, I think it was wasted in the ZR-1. And I say this as a ZR-1 owner. GM should have also put it into a price no object, mid engined super and an ultimate Caddy luxury sedan. One of the joys of the LT5 is that, even with all of the power, it had tons of torque, and is as smooth and vibration free as a Jaguar V12. But, sadly, GM was in one of its most myopic eras, and killed it way too soon.
There was a Gen 3 LT5 just about ready to start running, that would have produced an honest 500hp, with the same longevity and reliability, in 1993! With variable valve timing and grear economy and emissions. Sadly, GM put the kibosh on it, but one was built 20 years later from leftover parts, and hit all of their performance expectations.
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I remember some magazine later on complaining about the motor after it was discontinued- was it 150, or 300 additional moving parts- over the stock 350? It was a disappointing article- I believe it was either paying lip service to GM after their decision to shelve this marvel of a motor, or some luddite-minded auto journalist who couldn’t appreciate the effort, and preferred the simpler block. Yeah, the chevy 350 was a nice motor, and a joy for backyard hot-rodders and mechanics, and proved it’s mettle for decades upon decades, but THIS motor, this motor showed what could be achieved with some exercising of a few brains of clever engineers.

It was an amazing exercise in engineering.
 
prime minister said:
All of that being said, the straight six is the greatest engine design there is.
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Another design that took some licks in the complaint department, and undeserving in the grand scheme of things.

A frequent argument was crankshaft lash. Was this ever really an issue? It didn’t seem to bog up my BMW, slow down my buddy’s CJ-5 when traversing through the woods and up and down pretty steep angles, and didn’t hinder my Dodge Dart from hitting close to a quarter of a million miles. The Dart rotted away from New England winters before that engine gave away. In fact, I drove it to the junk yard.
 
The first one was a humble VW flat-four (my first car was a 1970 VW Type III Squareback with D-Jetronic fuel injection). However, it shortly spread to the Porsche flat-four from the 356/912 (never owned one, wish I did), the flat-six of the Porsche 911 (ditto), and in more recent years, the classic BMW naturally-aspirated inline 6 (M20 / M30 / M5x / S5x / N5x).

The tiny 1.8L DOHC 4-cylinder BMW M42 was also one that was interesting...
 
I used to go to the NHRA drag races in Englishtown and Indy. The top-fuel motors burning nitro-methane really did it for me. The flames of decomposing nitro along with the ripping cloth sound of the engines was intoxicating! 2,500 HP at the time.
 
Deli said:
I remember some magazine later on complaining about the motor after it was discontinued- was it 150, or 300 additional moving parts- over the stock 350? It was a disappointing article- I believe it was either paying lip service to GM after their decision to shelve this marvel of a motor, or some luddite-minded auto journalist who couldn’t appreciate the effort, and preferred the simpler block. Yeah, the chevy 350 was a nice motor, and a joy for backyard hot-rodders and mechanics, and proved it’s mettle for decades upon decades, but THIS motor, this motor showed what could be achieved with some exercising of a few brains of clever engineers.

It was an amazing exercise in engineering.
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Yeah, there are luddites everywhere.

One issue was that the Not Invented Here syndrome hit the LT5 in a big way. The fact that it was designed and built outside of corporate GM hit the Chevy engine folks in a big way. They got to work on the small block Chevy and revamped it dramatically. The L98, which was a torquey truck engine, was replaced by the higher horsepower, free revving, LT1. Just for fun, for the last year of C4 production, they produced the LT4, which was highest horsepower small block Chevy of all time.

The Chevy engine folks then dug in and produced the incredible LS series, which borrowed very liberally from the LT5, at least in bottom end design.

But, there was certainly a place for both. I'm guessing thr LT5, if it would have been continuously developed, would have generated close to 600 hp, in naturally aspirated form, with full emissions compliance and total reliability. Could the top of the GM ladder not have had space for a hand made, world leading engine?
 
V8s with light components and big cams that rev fast, like road race or asphalt modified cars use.
I once built a 1.6 Mazda motor that was the ultimate in light weight intervals revved like a wicked motor cycle.
The Cadillac V8s that were used in the World Challenger series sounded soooo good.
I live in a lake subdivision and sometimes I will here a big cubic in boat roaring out a pretty sound.. always makes me smile.
 
Of all the vehicles I've owned, the motor in my Honda RS166 was the most incredible. 245cc, 62 hp from six normally-aspirated cylinders@18,000 RPM

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I also rather liked the motor in the '68 Alfa Spider
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My brother had a 1973 Cuda with a 318 cu. in. engine. After about a year owning it, he picked up a wreck with a 1971 vintage 340 in it, and I helped him pull the 318 out of his car and put the 340 in along with a set of headers and a new exhaust system. What an improvement! The 340 before it was de-tuned to meet emission standards was a great little engine. We had a lot of fun in that car.
 
JoeThePop said:
My brother had a 1973 Cuda with a 318 cu. in. engine. After about a year owning it, he picked up a wreck with a 1971 vintage 340 in it, and I helped him pull the 318 out of his car and put the 340 in along with a set of headers and a new exhaust system. What an improvement! The 340 before it was de-tuned to meet emission standards was a great little engine. We had a lot of fun in that car.
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I had a 71 Cuda 340 with shaker hood, 4:30 rear axle as delivered from the factory.
I put headers and exhaust on, install a huge cam that would not idle under 1400 RPM and drove the crap out of that thing. It is still legendary in my home town some 45 years later.
 
prime minister said:
All of that being said, the straight six is the greatest engine design there is.
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Especially if it has the name Dodge Cummins associated with it.
I used mine, recently, to pull small oak trees out of the ground, in idling mode. It proved its worth as an industrial strength weed puller.
 
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