Coming soon - Raspberry Pi 5. Official announcement is here. Expected to ship towards the end of October.

Wow 5 amp power supply, and with that it looks like an active cooling requirement too.

Even the 4B is overkill in terms of the specs/performance needed for an endpoint, however this newer model might offer noticeable improvements for servers, especially ones housing a very large library. I'll be curious if this SoC is powerful enough to run Roon Core.
 
Wow 5 amp power supply, and with that it looks like an active cooling requirement too.

Even the 4B is overkill in terms of the specs/performance needed for an endpoint, however this newer model might offer noticeable improvements for servers, especially ones housing a very large library. I'll be curious if this SoC is powerful enough to run Roon Core.
Did you see the bit about an NVMe hat being in the pipeline? Would be nice to slap high-speed storage using the PCIe bus on your Pi.
 
Did you see the bit about an NVMe hat being in the pipeline? Would be nice to slap high-speed storage using the PCIe bus on your Pi.

I did, that definitely looks interesting and for audio also more of a server application than for an endpoint, or maybe even a NAS scenario too. How 'bout a daily driver computer?

The enclosure/case makers will be busy with a redesign, as the USB and Ethernet ports swap positions back to their original orientations as with the Pi 2/3, and there is now a physical power button too.

Tim Curtis @ Moode said he had been planning a relatively routine 4th Q update, until today. Now the various software developers are looking at implementing Raspy OS 12 (Bookworm), as at least initially this new board will not run on anything but that.

The new OS should drop a few days before the RPi 5 board does, with some slight delay for the U.S. market availability due to the need for FCC certification. Micro Center currently shows a release date of Oct. 23rd.
 
Raspberry Pi 5 preorders from the online retailers sold out very quickly, if one didn't get a spot in that queue early on (I didn't) you're looking at early 2024 delivery for the next batch.

The walk-in retailer Micro Center was originally listing availability for this Monday October 23rd, however I see they have now pushed that back 10 days:

Screen Shot 2023-10-22 at 9.50.27 AM.png
 
Wow 5 amp power supply, and with that it looks like an active cooling requirement too.

Even the 4B is overkill in terms of the specs/performance needed for an endpoint, however this newer model might offer noticeable improvements for servers, especially ones housing a very large library. I'll be curious if this SoC is powerful enough to run Roon Core.
Recently I switched my Core over to Ubuntu Server, and have been watching the performance here and there. Naturally there's less memory used during operation since there's no desktop environment loaded. But the CPU performance - it looks like it is consistently throttled down to 800 MHz (Spec is 2.5 GHz per core). I don't use zones and there's typically just two endpoints. Just a bit of PEQ applied, no oversampling.

Since my use is pretty basic, I am wondering about using Ubuntu Server for ARM on the Pi 5. I might try that this winter.
 
Recently I switched my Core over to Ubuntu Server, and have been watching the performance here and there. Naturally there's less memory used during operation since there's no desktop environment loaded. But the CPU performance - it looks like it is consistently throttled down to 800 MHz (Spec is 2.5 GHz per core). I don't use zones and there's typically just two endpoints. Just a bit of PEQ applied, no oversampling.

Since my use is pretty basic, I am wondering about using Ubuntu Server for ARM on the Pi 5. I might try that this winter.
I did make another trip to Micro Center recently, however they did not have any Pi 5 boards available nor any indication of when they'd get more.

I had seen a late November ship date listed from some of the online sellers, which is their anticipation of receiving a 2nd batch, the 1st batch were all preorders and vanished instantly.

Sounds like with your instance this is indeed possible, and in general the RPi 5 has reached performance levels of other older boards that seem to run Roon Core OK, for example a 4th Gen. Intel i5 NUC, though there would need to be a suitable Roon Server image compiled for ARMv8 made available.

I've heard of other even lesser spec'd boards with Intel Atom processors that are outside of what Roon specifies do actually work, so it's just up to Roon to make it happen at this point.
 
I made the somewhat bad decision yesterday afternoon to visit the Cross County Center in Yonkers, NY on a Black Friday. This decision was prompted by the sudden (retail walk-in only) availability of 12 units of Raspberry Pi 5 (4GB) at Micro Center. That stock hadn't been listed in the morning, I checked it then, but to my surprise it had been added at some point thereafter.

I thought if I went mid-late afternoon, that the early rush would be over with many people done and gone, while the 2nd wave that shops into the evening and makes a dinner or movie night out of it wouldn't yet be there.

The drive down went just fine and my plan was looking pretty good, lighter traffic than I had anticipated. I had to park a little farther away than usual from the store entrance, but no actual hunting for a parking space was necessary.

I also managed to immediately get a store associate to unlock the case where the Raspberry Pi are kept and quickly laid hands on the goods, however the first wrench in the works ended up being a fairly lengthy queue to check out. While most folks including myself had resigned themselves to patiently waiting out about about a 10-12 minute slog to the registers, other people were literally freaking out. I am saddened by the current state of humanity, people trying to cut the line, fight with someone else waiting on that line, or flag down a hurried/passing by store associate to complain vociferously about the line... on Black Friday. Toss in a few others who were coughing or sneezing with no attempt at covering their mouths, and I was beginning to regret the entire outing.

Thankfully I paid for my stuff and split shortly thereafter, immediate crisis averted, although I paid the price all over again waiting in the queue to exit the parking area. Once again all kinds of rude bad behavior was taking place, people ignoring the double yellow line and passing huge lines of cars going in the wrong lane/direction, only to try to butt over and weasel their way back in towards the front of the line, everyone else having seen what they did and not wanting to let them in of course (me included). Once out of the parking area and onto Central Park Avenue, I was able to quickly cruise over to the Sprain Brook Parkway and get the hell out of lower Westchester, my nerves rapidly calming.

I'm making this post on a brand new Raspberry Pi 5 running Raspy-OS 12 Bookworm:

20231126_114727.jpeg

Using the Raspberry Pi Imaging tool and a SanDisk Extreme Pro 64GB microSD card, the software install took under 10 minutes (very noticeably faster than an RPi 4B), and the hardware snaps together in the official case along with the active cooler in about 30 seconds, with no screws or fasteners needed.

20231125_10h47m56s_grim.png

This unit can definitely be used as an everyday computer for all normal tasks with no discernible performance penalty. Though I did install the official RPi 5 active cooler, I'm thinking passive cooling is certainly possible with these boards. It is running silently at what must be its very lowest fan speed, I can only tell it is on by placing my hand onto the case and feeling a tiny bit of vibration.

20231125_11h39m24s_grim.png

After launching the VLC Media Player and entering the Radio Paradise mellow mix FLAC stream URL, I'm running about 50° Celsius about an hour later streaming 16-bit/44.1kHz.

20231125_12h32m27s_grim.png
 
While most folks including myself had resigned themselves to patiently waiting out about about a 10-12 minute slog to the registers, other people were literally freaking out. I am saddened by the current state of humanity, people trying to cut the line, fight with someone else waiting on that line, or flag down a hurried/passing by store associate to complain vociferously about the line... on Black Friday. Toss in a few others who were coughing or sneezing with no attempt at covering their mouths, and I was beginning to regret the entire outing.
Is it wrong that I hope all these people at the computer store were buying HAL 9000?
 
While the 8GB version of the new Raspberry Pi 5 has yet to ship, those who preordered it early can probably expect to see it sometime in December, or early in the new year.

With most of the previous board versions now comfortably back in stock, the scalpers aren't yet out of business as they've simply adopted the new Pi 5 as the supposedly unobtanium item worthy of heavy up-charging. I've seen the $60 4GB version of the Pi 5 scalped at $139 on eBay and elsewhere, but meanwhile Digi-Key has them in-stock at the normal price:

Screen Shot 2023-12-03 at 8.39.53 PM.png

Had I been just a bit more patient (clearly not my strong suit when it comes to All Things Raspberry Pi) I could've skipped that annoying Black Friday trip to Micro Center and had the new Pi 5 shipped to me.
 
Fair enough, but with that logic pCP should produce a better result as it's leaner, runs entirely in RAM, with lesser CPU utilization/noise. I think you should consider giving the RPi 4B a chance, many think it sounds better than any previous Pi for audio purposes (unless the DAC has it's own master clocking scheme). There were various articles about that some time ago, Dimdim's blog had a good description of that issue (which was only fully resolved with the RPi 4B):
Do you have any documented source for this regarding the RPi4B? I thought all RPis need to have external clocks to solve the I2S jitter problem.
 
Do you have any documented source for this regarding the RPi4B? I thought all RPis need to have external clocks to solve the I2S jitter problem.

They do, the Broadcom SoC isn't an optimal clock for I²S audio, however as I recall it the RPi 4B is better able to more accurately do 44.1kHz and it's multiples compared to RPi3, which was only able to accurately do 48kHz and it's multiples.

You can certainly do the same Google searches I would in trying to see what that difference was or wasn't, however I'm curious why it would matter to you if you are:

a) using the Kali reclocking HAT which as you said above solves the clock issue... and
b) concerned with degraded audio performance/noise from higher frequency SoCs and/or multicore SoCs

In the end a master clocking scheme using dedicated 44.1/48 kHz oscillators either right on the DAC board, or in a separate clocking module as with your Kali, is going to be the way to go for audio purposes.
 
Hi Mike,

I trust all is well with you. I am planning on building a RPI 5 based audio system to replace my windows computer And I thought I would run my plans for the design are you first. I don't have the technical chops that you have nor the experience with Raspberry PI's.
  1. I'm replacing a windows computer which is an MSI Z690 motherboard with an I5-600K processor. I don't expect the performance to be comparable, i've never loaded my existing machine to any significant degree other than when processing DSD files. That would be my concern for this machine as well.
  2. The software will be Roon, and they do have a version that runs on the RPI 4 and some successful testing has been done with the RPI 5. If Roon becomes problematic, then I'll use something else.
  3. I already have an RPI 5 with four gigs of memory and a ton of audio and hardware to connect them. My plan is to use the machine with a DAC hat to be specifically made for the RPI 5 as opposed to using an XLR or RCA hat that would connect to one of my DAC’s, Hugo2/RME ADI-2 DAC/Topping D90.
  4. I have about 200 DSD ISO’s or ~800 dsf files + a bunch of regular CD's. They should fit on a 2 or 4 TB NVME drive.
The RPI 5 can use an SSD NVME (only one lane of four) and there are a few boards out there and I found one that works quite nicely:
Here: NVME for PI

I've built several end points with RPI 3's previously so I have that experience.

Thoughts?

Thanks
 
Hi Mike,

I trust all is well with you.

I'm fine thanks, hope you are too, great to see you back!

The software will be Roon, and they do have a version that runs on the RPI 4 and some successful testing has been done with the RPI 5. If Roon becomes problematic, then I'll use something else.

That's news to me, I presume it's a version of Roon Core/ROCK compiled for ARM processors, or are you just talking endpoint use here and the Roon server will reside on some other machine?

I already have an RPI 5 with four gigs of memory and a ton of audio and hardware to connect them. My plan is to use the machine with a DAC hat to be specifically made for the RPI 5 as opposed to using an XLR or RCA hat that would connect to one of my DAC’s, Hugo2/RME ADI-2 DAC/Topping D90.

Or you could skip the HAT and just use USB output to one of those existing DACs, no? There are very few HATs that process DSD.
 
I'm fine thanks, hope you are too, great to see you back!
Thanks, its great to be back.
That's news to me, I presume it's a version of Roon Core/ROCK compiled for ARM processors, or are you just talking endpoint use here and the Roon server will reside on some other machine?
Yes, most likely - Riopee is one version for endpoints that I think they may be testing as a server - I'll find out and let you know the details.
Or you could skip the HAT and just use USB output to one of those existing DACs, no? There are very few HATs that process DSD.
True, I am leery of running into power issues; I would hate to damage one of my DAC's, but on the other hand what else would I use them for:-). Anyway that's why I wanted to run it by you. Because you made the suggestion, I assume you believe I could send the audio over USB w/out issue, correct?

[update: This is what I used before in an earlier attempt - again w/the objective of not letting the PI directly interface to the DAC - necessary or not? ]


As noted, I will get back to you with the details re: Roon. Thanks for the rapid response!
 
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Yes, most likely - Riopee is one version for endpoints that I think they may be testing as a server - I'll find out and let you know the details.

OK, to date RoPieee has only been an endpoint, and until very recently there was only the version for RPi 3/4, however there is now a release for RPi 5 but I don't see any mention of it being a server. Volumio also has a Roon Bridge plugin and is another option for endpoint use, but also is not a Roon Core server.

If you need to replace your Roon Core server I think you are looking at getting a small or tiny form factor PC for that, or a NUC, or a finished product like the Small Green Computer Sonictransporter i9/7/5.

True, I am leery of running into power issues; I would hate to damage one of my DAC's, but on the other hand what else would I use them for:-). Anyway that's why I wanted to run it by you. Because you made the suggestion, I assume you believe I could send the audio over USB w/out issue, correct?

Absolutely, that's what I'm doing. The RPi 5 requires a 5 amp power supply, I'm using the official RPi 27 watt PSU and it sounds just fine that way. Another issue with using a HAT along with the NVMe is the lack of a suitable enclosure for it, I haven't seen one yet and even without the NVMe in the mix, there aren't many good enclosures yet for RPi 5 when using a HAT.
 
OK, to date RoPieee has only been an endpoint, and until very recently there was only the version for RPi 3/4, however there is now a release for RPi 5 but I don't see any mention of it being a server. Volumio also has a Roon Bridge plugin and is another option for endpoint use, but also is not a Roon Core server.

If you need to replace your Roon Core server I think you are looking at getting a small or tiny form factor PC for that, or a NUC, or a finished product like the Small Green Computer Sonictransporter i9/7/5.
Ugh, I hope not. That defeats the purpose, my PC hardware is a sunk cost, I don't want to buy a NUC.... My key objectives are to reduce the footprint and cost to that of the RPI 5. That should be ~$250. I could use my existing PI 5, that would save ~100, but I am using that for kali right now.
Absolutely, that's what I'm doing. The RPi 5 requires a 5 amp power supply, I'm using the official RPi 27 watt PSU and it sounds just fine that way. Another issue with using a HAT along with the NVMe is the lack of a suitable enclosure for it, I haven't seen one yet and even without the NVMe in the mix, there aren't many good enclosures yet for RPi 5 when using a HAT.
Great, then that I will do that as well; I have the same PSU.

One note: I don't think you need an enclosure for the NVME, see how it sits on my PI. And now that I see that, using the USB makes perfect sense because its likely the only viable solution.
 

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One note: I don't think you need an enclosure for the NVME, see how it sits on my PI. And now that I see that, using the USB makes perfect sense because its likely the only viable solution.

Oh yeah, you can just run it "nude" like that, though since it looks like you can't do a Roon server with it then maybe you don't want to use an NVMe at all, or do you also plan to boot from the NVMe?
 
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