Record care routine from scratch?

[J. Frum]

One of my major aspirations for this winter, for my own mental health and development as a person, is for me to pivot time and attention away from the stereo hobby, at least as I currently practice it, at least for the time being. I'm about fried on the the endless reading about, acquisition, flipping, and dreaming of building without actually building.

In part, I'd like to spend more time listening to records.

And I've never felt happy with my record care routine. Nearly everything gets a roller-type brushing before play. Most stuff gets a dry run with the Discwasher brush before that. For some stuff, there's a preliminary wet run or two with a Stanton brush and whatever fluid I have on hand. If a record is particularly clean, or in particularly good shape, I'll try to get it into a Discwasher VRP sleeve (similar to MoFi or Bags Unlimited's "rice paper"). I should have everything in outer sleeves, but I don't. And most of my outer sleeves have the adhesive strip on the back and the flap, which I've grown to hate.

It's time to do something new, and plan my record care routine from scratch with an eye towards balancing effectiveness, convenience, and cost. Here's what I'm thinking:

1. Clean with ultrasonic RCM
2. Rinse with vacuum RCM
3. Place in inner sleeve
4. Put sleeved record in back of jacket in 3-sided outer sleeve
5. Apply sticker with grading and date of cleaning
6. When time to play a record, give it a once-over with a dry brush or roller brush

Ultrasonic RCM - I've gotten completely lost in a couple of threads on the subject. Can anyone point me towards a recommendation or succinct explanation of my options? Should I buy machine and tank separately? Build any part of it myself?

Vacuum RCM - Squeaky-Clean Vinyl MK-III or used VPI 16.5

Inner sleeves - Bags Unlimited White Paper Sleeve With Poly Lining

Outer sleeves - Bags Unlimited 12" Record Jacket Sleeve Snug Fit 12-5/8" x 12-5/8" x 3 mil Polyethylene No Flap

Dry brush - MoFi Record Cleaning Brush

Roller brush - Vinyl Buddy

Please, those of you with more experience, as well as fellow armchair gurus, what do you think?

 

[MikeO]

Looking forward to reading the responses here. Just getting back into vinyl after selling off my vinyl and turntable a couple of years ago. One thing that is important for me is not to get too obsessive this time. In the past I obsessed over the right fluid, the right sleeves, the right cleaning machine. I think that really turned me off vinyl. Now it is going to hopefully be a fun diversion.
There is such a wide range of opinion. Apparently Rega and Linn both say record cleaning is unnecessary. There are some nice cheap RCMs like the squeaky clean or the spin clean I may consider. And of course all the way up to the ultrasonics or the loricraft and Keith monk machines which I couldn't afford even if I wanted to.
Then the debates over sleeves. Not suggesting they don't make a difference just that I know my obsessive personality will suck me into a rabbit hole if I let it.

 

[Rudy]

I use this:

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thevinylstack.com

...and an ultrasonic cleaner that fits the 12" records. My only mistake there was getting a cheaper eBay ultrasonic cleaner and the switches went bad on it rather quickly. Some use an aquarium filter between cleanings to keep the water clear between batches.

I follow that up with a clear water (Aquafina) rinse and vacuum on a Record Doctor (which is pretty lame as a vacuum, actually, and rather poorly made--I need to up my game there).

Then it's into a new sleeve and back on the shelf.

It's such a tedious job, though, that I only do it a few times per year. I have nowhere to set it up permanently--I have to take over the kitchen to do this. I suppose if I had a dedicated room somewhere I'd leave it set up all the time.

I read over on the VPI forum how Harry Weisfeld experimented with a few cleaning techniques and it's an interesting (but long) read. That's how I came to use a vacuum rinse after the ultrasonic (although I've had the vacuum long before this). I figure if anyone would know, it's Harry.

vpiforum.com • View topic - Record cleaning

 

[airdronian]

I suppose there's lots of ways to go about this. Your steps above seem OK. I personally would hesitate putting a cleaning date on them as its just one more thing to update on subsequent cleanings. You'll know when the records need it. But there's nothing to stop you from trying that.

I have a VPI 16.5 which was a second choice at the time. It's a bit loud as you might have read, but it gets the job done. An ultrasonic cleaner sounds interesting, but I'm not sure I'll ever take the plunge. A vacuum RCM is essential, IMO, and there's lots of choices here from economical to big bucks.

I started putting any album in a poly outer sleeve, but found it to be a pain for handling as well as reading the spines. So I only use these for some of the nicer ones, like the MoFi Miles Davis and the glossy covered Tone Poets.

Some used albums have crappy sleeves which I replace with MoFi sleeves. (those inner sleeves you link to look good) Actually I replace any paper sleeve. Some, like classical LP's come with nice sleeves that are still serviceable. I couldn't believe that some of the recent Mark Knopfler albums (Privateering, Tracker) came with CARDBOARD inner sleeves which I guess allowed them to print images on them, but they left a mess on the record. Off they went.

I happen to use those MoFi brushes in the wet cleaning routine. For dusting before spinning I like the Hunt EDA Mark 6 . I could never get results I liked with just a carbon fibre brush.

For cleaning fluid I use a homebrew that I scoffed from LondonJazzCollector and it works well for me. I use distilled water in that solution as well as for rinsing. I've got more than a century's worth of Ilfotol now. Two MoFi brushes - one for wash, one for rinse. I actually do two rinse applications, to ensure that cleaning fluid is completely gone. OCD ?? Nah.

All records coming in the house get a wash. New ones are cleaned briefly, older used records get a good soak in the cleaner prior to vacuuming. Sometimes washed twice if really grimy. After that, they only go back on the RCM as required.

I actually enjoy the process, as long as there isn't much to do.

 

[joe83]

I have cleaned about a dozen records ever, i really should get some sort of record cleaning system so will be following this with interest!

 

[Thermionics]

Are you sure 'from scratch' is the term you want to be using?

 

[Audio Refugee]

I did something similar for about half my collection... Clean them on my VPI 16.5 with a dope cleaning recipe, drop the vinyl in a new anti-static sleeve, and then drop the album cover in a plastic sleeve. I've heard some people claim that plastic is bad because heat may cause the plastic to shrink, which may cause your record to warp. Never a problem for me because I keep my vinyl in the house where the temp is pretty comfy constant. The reason for the plastic sleeve wasn't necessarily to protect the album cover inasmuch as it served as a way for me to know that I'd cleaned that album. I don't clean in alpha order. I grab what I want to listen to, check if it's been cleaned and go from there.

I've been happy with the job the VPI does, though I have toyed with ultrasonic. I just can't get there in my head. There are other components I want more than the ultrasonic. I want one, just can't justify it.

 

[kirk57]

I'm happy with a Nitty Gritty and some manual scrubbing (with record on a towel) using a DIY solution. Ultrasonic sounds interesting but too much hassle for me, and I'm happy with the results I get now...

 

[S0und Dragon]

I use a Kirmuss machine and also had a Okki Nokki. I have also owned the VPI 16.5. In the beginning, I used a combination of both the okki Nokki and Kirmuss. The combination actually did not work as well as following Kirmuss's redundant but ultimately superior method. It was a real surprise to me, but the proof was in the listening and end results.

 

[Audio Refugee]

I'd looked at several ultrasonics. If I were going to get one it'd be the Kirmuss. I was able to see one up close and personal and the West Coast Audio Show and was impressed. The sales guys cracked me up. Pretty salesy. Not offensive, just funny. I looked at other lesser expensive options, but still liked the Kirmuss. If money were no object I'd snag the Audiodesk automatic model. Pretty cool.

 

[Wntrmute2]

I can without a doubt recommend the best audio purchase I have ever made -The Degritter. This thing has changed my life related to audio. I can come home with ten albums and without standing there, scrubbing and listening to the thing grinding and vacuuming away, I can have the records in pristine condition within a few hours all the time I'm listening to my music. The best thing is the records get cleaned rather than stacking up in the newly arrived sectioned. Yes it is expensive but it clearly is the best audio purchase I've ever made!

 

[Wntrmute2]

One thing I've found that has really helped was using a "Swifter" pad to lightly dust the spinning record instead of a dry brush. It really removes dust that other methods seem to just push around. I know some will think "Heretic" but I've let one soak in water for 6 months and it never broke down or released anything I could detect into the water. I find it far superior to anything else if a dusting is needed. Try it - you'll like it!

 

[Muddskipper]

Vinyl cleaning procedure, equipment, supplies, and related questions, for machine or manual cleaning, are resolved IMO at vinylengine.com in their forum by searching for :

“Precision Aqueous Cleaning of Vinyl Records”​

I've followed this for about 100 albums now. Can't speak more highly about the results, the efficiency, the detailed clarity, and the authority with which the author speaks. Check for yourself. It's a 190 page manual, in its 3rd edition 2022, not the 1st or 2nd. By author and USN vet Neil Antin and publisher Bill Hart of The Vinyl Press.

Free.

With patience and re-reading, all your questions are answered right there. If someone else has already posted it on hifihaven, I'm not aware of it, sorry if I missed it. I use the manual, no machine for me, approach. Down to 10 to 12 minutes per album.

Here in its most simplified version is Mr. Astin's protocol: 1. seal the labels; 2. tap water rinse; 3. Liquinox (1%) wash; 4. tap water rinse; 5. Citranox (1.5%) wash; 6. tap water rinse; 7. Tergitol (0.1%--note) wash; 8. tap water rinse; 9. distilled water rinse; 10. sponge dry; 11. anti-stat cloth dry; 12. air dry; 13. bag and tag.

 

[geoff]

I use a Spin-Clean with their fluid, which does a good pre-cleaning, then my VPI 17 with Record Research Labs fluid. I do a couple of dozen at a time, as it’s a pain to set up everything.

 

[Punker X]

I use this:

Products

Terms and Conditions Privacy Policy

thevinylstack.com

...and an ultrasonic cleaner that fits the 12" records. My only mistake there was getting a cheaper eBay ultrasonic cleaner and the switches went bad on it rather quickly. Some use an aquarium filter between cleanings to keep the water clear between batches.

I follow that up with a clear water (Aquafina) rinse and vacuum on a Record Doctor (which is pretty lame as a vacuum, actually, and rather poorly made--I need to up my game there).

Then it's into a new sleeve and back on the shelf.

It's such a tedious job, though, that I only do it a few times per year. I have nowhere to set it up permanently--I have to take over the kitchen to do this. I suppose if I had a dedicated room somewhere I'd leave it set up all the time.

I read over on the VPI forum how Harry Weisfeld experimented with a few cleaning techniques and it's an interesting (but long) read. That's how I came to use a vacuum rinse after the ultrasonic (although I've had the vacuum long before this). I figure if anyone would know, it's Harry.

vpiforum.com • View topic - Record cleaning

Also followed this path back in 2015. Got a 80Khz tank from a guy on Tindie. Also got the Ultra Vinyl Stack. Unfortunately they have retired and it is no longer available. Between those two items, probably got about $1000 just into that setup. I got a commercial filter and use a 12 volt noisy pump to filter before and after cleaning. Got a very fine filter. I tried several different aquarium filters, but wasn't happy with the results.

I also followed Harry and use my VP16.5 to rinse and dry. Tried several DIY solutions, cleaned ok, but most seemed hard to rinse and would take several cycles of rinsing to get rid of the suds. Recently picked up Degritter concentrate and seems to clean nicely plus the records look fantastic. Rinses clean with one go through. I use distilled water and a Mofi brush. I use one tube to pick up leftover water, then a clean one for a final dry after the initial pick up and rinse with the distilled water and brush.

Use 10mil Bags Unlimited outers and Disckeeper sleeves.

One thing I've added to the process is I run a Simco Areostat. Removes static in the general area, put the clean record and new clean sleeves in the flow and it removes static. I can't recommend this enough. I've pulled out record so charged you see dust floating toward it like a magnet. I run through the flow of the Areostat removes the charge almost instantly.

Now that I've been using this system almost 7 years. I really don't think that it actually cleans any better than my previous method with the VPI only. Takes less time to do the same amounts of records, less work. Less steps. However the end result is comparable.

Giving some serious thought into getting a Degritter after seeing @Wntrmute2 's in actions.

Some pictures of my set up.

 

[Muddskipper]

Also followed this path back in 2015. Got a 80Khz tank from a guy on Tindie. Also got the Ultra Vinyl Stack. Unfortunately they have retired and it is no longer available. Between those two items, probably got about $1000 just into that setup. I got a commercial filter and use a 12 volt noisy pump to filter before and after cleaning. Got a very fine filter. I tried several different aquarium filters, but wasn't happy with the results.

I also followed Harry and use my VP16.5 to rinse and dry. Tried several DIY solutions, cleaned ok, but most seemed hard to rinse and would take several cycles of rinsing to get rid of the suds. Recently picked up Degritter concentrate and seems to clean nicely plus the records look fantastic. Rinses clean with one go through. I use distilled water and a Mofi brush. I use one tube to pick up leftover water, then a clean one for a final dry after the initial pick up and rinse with the distilled water and brush.

Use 10mil Bags Unlimited outers and Disckeeper sleeves.

One thing I've added to the process is I run a Simco Areostat. Removes static in the general area, put the clean record and new clean sleeves in the flow and it removes static. I can't recommend this enough. I've pulled out record so charged you see dust floating toward it like a magnet. I run through the flow of the Areostat removes the charge almost instantly.

Now that I've been using this system almost 7 years. I really don't think that it actually cleans any better than my previous method with the VPI only. Takes less time to do the same amounts of records, less work. Less steps. However the end result is comparable.

Giving some serious thought into getting a Degritter after seeing @Wntrmute2 's in actions.

Some pictures of my set up.

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Can I suggest you and others consider the following instead of more machinery?

Precision Aqueous Cleaning of Vinyl Records
Third Edition January 2022 / Published by the The Vinyl Press -
Link: Precision Aqueous Cleaning of Vinyl Records-3rd Edition - The Vinyl Press

Copyright 2022-Neil Antin, Some Rights Reserved; See Page for Use and Disclaimer.

Author Bio: Mr. Antin volunteered his time to prepare this document and is a retired Naval Sea
Systems Command (NAVSEA) Technical Warrant who from the late 1980’s for 20-years was the
NAVSEA technical authority for MIL-STD-1330 Precision Cleaning and Testing of Shipboard Oxygen,
Helium, Helium-Oxygen, Nitrogen, And Hydrogen Systems and MIL-STD-1622 Standard Practice for
Cleaning of Shipboard Compressed Air Systems. During the early 1990’s he led the NAVSEA effort to
mostly eliminate chlorofluorocarbon (CFC) solvents from these military standards. His efforts were
successful and are documented in MIL-STD-1330D and MIL-STD-1622B, and acknowledged with an
EPA Ozone Protection Award 1995, two US Patents US 5427729 and 5520837, and NAVSEA Engineer
of the Year 1997. The procedures and discussion detailed herein follow many of the fundamentals
and practices that were developed for MIL-STD-1330D and MIL-STD-1622B. After his turn at
precision cleaning, Mr. Antin professionally moved on to other unrelated projects before retiring in
2019 after 44-years of combined U.S. Navy experience as a Sailor, Defense Contractor and Civil
Servant.”


“Precision Aqueous Cleaning of Vinyl Records. This, the 3rd Edition, takes account of different types of chemistry available in different parts of the world, adds an acid wash step that can dramatically improve results for those who are not using ultrasonic cleaning as part of their regimen (this new step helps remove the small particulate matter than ultrasonic cleaning is so effective in removing), . . . expands on various filtration methods to minimize contamination from the ultrasonic bath. The section on ultrasonic cleaning alone has expanded by 14 pages and now even addresses cooling for those that wish to raise their ultrasonic cleaning process to near full-throttle factory throughput.”

Astin's guide includes everything needed for machine cleaning as well, but using his manual system, here's a photo of my complete system, plus a drying rack, running water, and a sink. Each record takes me 10 to 12 minutes for a super thorough version of Astin's procedure. Total cost for all this was about $170 or so, mostly through Amazon, leaving me thousands of dollars I could have spent on machinery, to instead spend on vinyl.

And as you see from the very large bottles of the Liquinox and the Citranox, I bought enough for more than 500 records. Same with the small bottle of Tergitol.
.

 

[Limberpine]

I use the Okki Nokki and this fluid: L'Art du Son Record Cleaning Fluid for Vinyl LPs & Shellac 78s

The Fluid is amazing. It's antistatic and continues to be antistatic. I've yet had to re-clean a record to get the static back off of it. I've cleaned over 300 records thus far with it and have been super pleased. It works so well, I feel no need to explore other options and can enjoy the tunes.

All records sit in a mofi inner sleve and plastic jacket outer sleeve.

I also bought a bunch of goat hair brushes from Ali Express which are essentially knock off of the goat hair brushes Okki Nokki sells to apply the fluid and be a dry brush for before play.. They are great. They ended up being about $3.50 a picee with shipping.

 

[jblnut]

I'm just going to pop in here and mention that record playing and ownership does not need to approach the...err...obsessive stage that it certainly can when discussed in these circles. Try and keep the focus on the enjoyment you get listening to them and less on an incredibly rigid and exacting routine. This is coming from a guy with a lot invested in both hardware and software as it were in this arena.

I clean noisy records with the VPI 16.5 and just give them a light brush with 99.9% isopropanol on a D3 before every play. Stylus gets a dunk in the little round gummy thing here and there, or a brush with a carbon fiber stylus tool. Records are never perfect and the stylus is going to wear out anyway no matter how fastidious you are.

If you get too wrapped up in all of the paraphernalia you'll just give up and stream the music instead. This I know....

 

[Muddskipper]

I'm just going to pop in here and mention that record playing and ownership does not need to approach the...err...obsessive stage that it certainly can when discussed in these circles. Try and keep the focus on the enjoyment you get listening to them and less on an incredibly rigid and exacting routine. This is coming from a guy with a lot invested in both hardware and software as it were in this arena.

I clean noisy records with the VPI 16.5 and just give them a light brush with 99.9% isopropanol on a D3 before every play. Stylus gets a dunk in the little round gummy thing here and there, or a brush with a carbon fiber stylus tool. Records are never perfect and the stylus is going to wear out anyway no matter how fastidious you are.

If you get too wrapped up in all of the paraphernalia you'll just give up and stream the music instead. This I know....

Hello Limberpine and other prior commentors,

That's a good system for you. Glad you are happy with it. However that is not for me. I don't find anything about Antin approach obsessive. He may be, lol, but he simplifies for the end user into a one page summary. I enjoy the added detail revealed in my vinyl achieved by his cleaning method. I only need to clean my records once, then address dust and new static issues as they arise. Everything I own is in MoFi liners and covers. The Antin (not "Astin" as I used once in the above) guide provides detailed info on addressing and understanding static as well as his focus on cleaning. I don't have what I regard as a distraction by the paraphernalia. It takes so little time, an hour and a half in an afternoon to clean 8 or 10 albums, then I sit and listen to at least half of them.

I love the added detail, depth of soundstage, presence, etc. I can tell you that since I started this procedure, I have significantly increased my listening hours by more than triple. I still own most of my records from 1965 and forward. The Dylan, Stones, Yardbirds, Kinks, Animals era. I took care of them then and still play them, with very little, if any, noticeable surface or background noise. Skips and pops and scratches are not on my albums. They still sound much better than just good enough. They still sound fresh.

But I know there is accumulated foreign matter and I learned this method in order to remove it, all of it. If anyone here takes the time to even browse the Antin guide I offered up here, maybe they'll give this a try and comment. If they do, they will know more about the science of vinyl cleaning and how and why some products and methods work and others do not than they ever thought possible and they will probably hear the difference from some of the conventional cleaning methods described from different sources.

I'm not interested in spending 3 and 4 figure money for machinery to clean them. I buy albums with that money. I've read the reviews even right here on hifihaven.org about the various issues with machine cleaners. The only noise for instance that the Antin manual system creates, is that of gently running water.
And for those who enjoy listening with confidence that the surface is as clean as it can possibly be, acid washed, surfactant rinsed, distilled water rinsed, static eliminated (until you generate more) through the same system used by the Library of Congress since 2005, with updates, the time is well worth it. For his readers, Antin cites his sources for his science, although by now, his own product testing and research may have become the science.

No one has ever smoked around my originally purchased '60's to '80's vinyl. No one else has handled my old vinyl. Including my two wives and musician friends. My hands weren't touching the grooves when I handled them. I bought plastic liners early on. Tossed all the paper liners except lyrics of course. They are cleaner sounding than any used vinyl I have bought over the past year that was rated as less than NM. They are already "clean" sounding, though of course not perfect.

So I'd rather clean my vinyl, old and new, and send photos of original Iron Butterfly album covers to my friends and play them "In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida" from the MoFi Original Master Recording issue and Bobby Fuller's original 45 copy of "I Fought the Law" at volume as they drool over my album covers, read the liner notes, the musician credits, refresh their memory of whether Bernie Grundman did the mastering and which cut was EVH on for Thriller, and wistfully recall their own copies they sold to buy cds and digital music equipment.

I do not stream music. I do not normally listen to YouTube. Maybe once every 3 or 4 months if I'm doing yardwork. So I won't be getting tired of this approach and turning to streaming.

Cleaning my more recent purchases from online used vinyl dealers or MoFi Ultradisc One Step Eagles and Van Halen vinyl releases is where my cleaning time goes to, although, I'll be cleaning my existing collection as well because I've enhanced the sound of the several I tried it on. Like my 1972 version of Simon and Garfunkel's Scarborough Fair/Canticle with the last minute or two of tubular bells that fill the musical soundstage image like they are stars twinkling in the sky making your mind pop around the space between and above the speakers trying to "see" them. And I don't even like Simon and Garfunkel. I had no idea those notes were even on there until I gave that album the precision washing method.

For those of us not satisfied with an advertising or manufacturer guided, or a third party anecdotal approach to determining what cleaning approach to use, or not comfortable spending $999 for a cleaning machine, this is an alternative for those who want to be certain that, when they apply this method by a guy who's background is over 20 years of specifically precision cleaning for the US Navy, and who knows the industrial chemistry to do so with vinyl care and safety uppermost in his mind, they got the best results possible, whether by machine or manually. He provides 84 scientific and industry references, and has entire sections on record cleaning machines, which he is of course, not opposed to--just good advice. See Chapter XIII at page 142 to begin for Record Cleaning Machines and Chapter XIV at page 147 for Ultrasonic Cleaning Machines.

Lumberpine--I checked on Antin's research on testing on Isopropyl Alcohol (IPA) at various concentrations on various quality record vinyls at page 117:

Record & 100% IPA 5.80 3.91 1.89 Likely to cause swelling
Record & 91% IPA 6.25 3.91 2.34 May cause swelling
Record & 100% Ethanol 6.90 3.91 2.99 Likely compatible
Record & Denatured Ethanol 6.95 3.91 3.05 Likely compatible
Record & 70% IPA 7.60 3.91 3.70 Very likely compatible
Record & 30% Acetic
Acid (Vinegar) 10.93 3.91 7.02 Compatible
Record & 20% IPA 11.72 3.91 7.82 Compatible

Again, I have zero connection to Mr. Antin or The Vinyl Press. I'm just the messenger here.