The Covid-19 thread.

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kirk57

Junior Member
When the real story is that if you want about a 97% better chance of staying out of the hospital and a close to 100% chance of not dying from Delta - just get the freakin jab already like a billion other people who’ve not had serious side effects from it.

At some point the outliers became all of news. Just look at where I live, it’s apparently a death trap with an open war going on with looting at all hours everywhere and half a million Lollapolooza kids running around coughing on people while flashing their fake vaccine cards.
They couldn’t even avoid the most alarming take on the music festival. “350,000 crowd into grant park!!!” When in reality it was about 80,000 a day spread over four days. Still not the smartest thing to do but four times less panic than the headline implies and not all that dramatically more than regular crowd into sporting events happening all around the country, every other day or do.
Open war? my daughter is staying downtown at the Palmer House right now (unrelated to Lolla) and the only comment she made was that it looks pretty easy to buy fun drugs right now.

I feel for the people putting on Lolla; at the time they decided to go ahead with it, it looked like things were going in the right direction COVID-wise, but then the delta thing hit. What are they gonna do, refund hundreds of thousands of tickets at the last minute?

What a nightmare. Just get the freaking shot, already.
 

JohnVF

Administrator
Staff member
Open war? my daughter is staying downtown at the Palmer House right now (unrelated to Lolla) and the only comment she made was that it looks pretty easy to buy fun drugs right now.

I feel for the people putting on Lolla; at the time they decided to go ahead with it, it looked like things were going in the right direction COVID-wise, but then the delta thing hit. What are they gonna do, refund hundreds of thousands of tickets at the last minute?

What a nightmare. Just get the freaking shot, already.
We've had a whole bunch of media-crying-wolf prophecies. Having baseball games will kill us all. Indoor dining will kill us all. Etc etc... and none of it happened. Even going more mask-less didn't cause a hugely dramatic difference between Florida and the much-masked California prior to vaccinations. The ONLY thing, that I can think of, that has made an inarguable difference between populations is the arrival of Delta and the affect vaccine rates have on it. Where there are more vaccinations, there is less Covid right now. And WAY LESS deadly outcomes for it. It's absolutely inarguable, one of the few inarguable things throughout this entire pandemic. These 'breakthrough cases' are COMPLETELY DIFFERENT in outcome than cases in unvaccinated folks. But nobody knows what to believe anymore because the 24-hour panic-mongers have had us on a trough of BS for over a year.

And the media is still dead-set on scaring the crap out of vaccinated people, because the majority of people are vaccinated and they don't want them to check out of the only news topic they can think of right now because the government is suddenly such an non-newsworthy snooze compared to what it was.

Oh, as for the ease of buying fun-drugs. I heard from a friend that the E was crap so don't bother.
 

JohnVF

Administrator
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Looks like NYC is going to require vaccinations to do pretty much anything fun. That'll be ...interesting? I think there are two trains of thought going on in Chicago, going by anecdotal hearsay and some things on the ground like Lollapolooza. I think some want to go the route of NYC, prolong and protect the unvaccinated...and I think some are of the mindset that with the vaccines so readily available, to let this thing burn through the population as fast as it can to not give it any more time to either stew and mutate or burn down the economy. We have no more weapons- the vaccines are it. If you're not vaccinated, you are GOING TO GET IT eventually, either now or in the not so distance future. Its just a matter of time and we aren't going to control this thing. I'd say that option is cruel but the way out of being on the receiving end of that options has been there, in the US, for some time. I've been fully vaccinated since April.

The ability of a community to go through that without overwhelming the hospitals depends entirely on some not yet figured out percentage of vaccination... but I really do suspect those tough conversations are happening.

I'm not advocating this approach but we're at war with this thing and what really are the benefits of drawing it out, except for the very important part of not overwhelming hospitals? Also, I've heard people say this approach might scare the unvaccinated into finally getting the vaccine, while drawing it out maintains an environment where they wrongly think they'll somehow be skipped by a virus that really doesn't care who are what they are.

Honestly, what really is the end of this thing? Its some degree of herd immunity, that's how the deadliest parts of all pandemics end and how novel viruses cease to be novel. Everybody has to get either vaccinated or acquire their antibodies 'naturally'. We're getting to a point where people have made their choices on which way its going to be.
 

Andyman

Junior Member
Yeah, the Media sucks. But on a good note I saw that vaccinations are up 200% in high infection areas, but FWIW it can mean 150 shots vs. 50.

One of my favorite saying for the hucksters using percentages is "100% of zero is still zero"
 

Andyman

Junior Member
One thing that does bother me is that they claim vaccinated can still carry the full viral load as the unvaccinated. This implies that the vaccine does not work by destroying the virus or by preventing growth and propagation, but by rather rendering it inert to cause harm in a vaccinated body.
If that is the case, the unvaccinated are really playing Russian Roulette because they are facing a massively higher exposure of a massively more contagious virus.
It's not a matter of if, but rather when...
 

JohnVF

Administrator
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Yeah, the Media sucks. But on a good note I saw that vaccinations are up 200% in high infection areas, but FWIW it can mean 150 shots vs. 50.

One of my favorite saying for the hucksters using percentages is "100% of zero is still zero"
Yeah I saw something like a 100% increase in infections somewhere this morning with an exclamation point in the national headline, and it was like 20 people to 40 people being sold as the end-times. Again, not saying this isn't a problem but overselling it's direness before its as dire as suggested, is impeding what's needed to safely navigate it.
 

JohnVF

Administrator
Staff member
One thing that does bother me is that they claim vaccinated can still carry the full viral load as the unvaccinated. This implies that the vaccine does not work by destroying the virus or by preventing growth and propagation, but by rather rendering it inert to cause harm in a vaccinated body.
If that is the case, the unvaccinated are really playing Russian Roulette because they are facing a massively higher exposure of a massively more contagious virus.
It's not a matter of if, but rather when...
It seems what it does is take the 'novel' out of the novel virus. It makes it behave like many of the other viruses we deal with that were once a pandemic and are now, to most people, something they don't need to hide inside, terrified, of.

That "it's not a matter of if, but rather when..." part is what the real story should be, IMHO. Pick how you want to fight this beast- unarmed with nothing but luck and chance on your side, or equipped with the vaccine that takes most of the need for luck out of it. Because you ARE going to have to fight it.
 

prime minister

Site Owner
Staff member
One thing that does bother me is that they claim vaccinated can still carry the full viral load as the unvaccinated. This implies that the vaccine does not work by destroying the virus or by preventing growth and propagation, but by rather rendering it inert to cause harm in a vaccinated body.
If that is the case, the unvaccinated are really playing Russian Roulette because they are facing a massively higher exposure of a massively more contagious virus.
It's not a matter of if, but rather when...
Nope. That is not true. The NYT tweeted that recently, and even the White House stepped in to clarify it was false. Yes, you can still pass it on if you are vaccinated, but to a much lower degree then the unvaccinated.
 

JoeThePop

Known member
Yeah I saw something like a 100% increase in infections somewhere this morning with an exclamation point in the national headline, and it was like 20 people to 40 people being sold as the end-times. Again, not saying this isn't a problem but overselling it's direness before its as dire as suggested, is impeding what's needed to safely navigate it.
And overselling the direness, and then having it not be so dire only gives the skeptics more ammunition.
 

Andyman

Junior Member
Was this recanted??

"High viral loads suggest an increased risk of transmission and raised concern that, unlike with other variants, vaccinated people infected with Delta can transmit the virus," Dr. Rochelle Walensky, the CDC's director, said in a statement Friday."

This bothers me as I thought the vaccine worked by destroying the virus rather than reducing it's efficacy but allowing it to propagate. That's one of the reasons I opted out of wearing a mask at work as I thought I was not a threat to others.
 
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JohnVF

Administrator
Staff member
Was this recanted??

"High viral loads suggest an increased risk of transmission and raised concern that, unlike with other variants, vaccinated people infected with Delta can transmit the virus," Dr. Rochelle Walensky, the CDC's director, said in a statement Friday."

This bothers me as I thought the vaccine worked by destroying the virus rather than reducing it's efficacy but allowing it to propagate. That's one of the reasons I opted out of wearing a mask at work as I thought I was not a threat to others.
It all seems to stem from a cluster that occurred in Provicetown, Mass. A significant number of the infected were vaccinated and a significant number of them had a high viral load. What's often left out of that is that those vaccinated mostly just had mild symptoms if any at all. And also that its one incident and its unknown if there are variables in play that make it unique in some way... its obvious the CDC is building this plane while its flying (or crashing depending upon your POV). The constant back and forth has done nothing except make people throw their hands up in exasperation and exhaustion.

What is clear even in that cluster is that if you get the vaccine, then its a non-issue for most people.
 

JoeThePop

Known member
Was this recanted??

"High viral loads suggest an increased risk of transmission and raised concern that, unlike with other variants, vaccinated people infected with Delta can transmit the virus," Dr. Rochelle Walensky, the CDC's director, said in a statement Friday."

This bothers me as I thought the vaccine worked by destroying the virus rather than reducing it's efficacy but allowing it to propagate. That's one of the reasons I opted out of wearing a mask at work as I thought I was not a threat to others.
I may be mistaken, there's been so much information and misinformation over the months, but I though that the vaccine works not by destroying the virus, but making it so it's spikey protein structure couldn't get a hold onto cells to infect. And this may be just one type of the vaccine, as my understanding is there were several different ways that the multiple vaccines available work.
 

Andyman

Junior Member
I saw that story. If this was the driving force it just reinforces the outlier contention and disappoints me greatly if the CDC is making premature calls based on a single data point.
Science via anecdote is not what I would expect from the CDC.
 

JohnVF

Administrator
Staff member
Just to rag on the media more- just saw a headline "Drone crashes into world trade center building..."

Read the article- It was a tiny personal drone and it got lodged 30 feet up between two panes of glass that did not shatter. The pilot turned himself in, and the drone just got out of control. Basically a toy got stuck in a tree. NATIONAL NEWS.
 
One thing that does bother me is that they claim vaccinated can still carry the full viral load as the unvaccinated. This implies that the vaccine does not work by destroying the virus or by preventing growth and propagation, but by rather rendering it inert to cause harm in a vaccinated body.
If that is the case, the unvaccinated are really playing Russian Roulette because they are facing a massively higher exposure of a massively more contagious virus.
It's not a matter of if, but rather when...
I'm afraid you're right ...
 
There's a number of scientific publications re. this topic, showing very divers results. I've read an article that tried to compare and summarize these results. It's complicated, at least for me. Most of all it seems to depend on very individual circumstances whether you find a higher or lower virus load when vaccinated and infected. So to stay on a safe track we should assume that some vaccinated people really carry a relatively high virus load after being infected.

I'll try to find the article and share the link, but possibly it will be in German.
 
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