The DBX Venue360 and other Room correction EQ Thread

[S0und Dragon]

Moving this subject from @jblnut 's Thread as I do not want to derail it any further and would love to expand the conversation to some of our digital gurus here on the haven. Moving a few pertinent comments from the original thread here.

I picked up a DBX Venue360 yesterday with the RTA mic and spent all day playing with it on my current system (Revels and Mac stuff). It's very transparent and the the auto room QA cured some frequency irregularities that have been bugging me for a long time. It's going to meet the 4670's later in the week but I have heard enough to make me believe in modern room EQs.

Oooo. @jblnut I have questions! Firstly, is it line level or is it bumped like most pro equipment. Also, how did you integrate it into your system?

It's line level and I inserted it into the chain between my preamp and my amps. I use all XLR balanced cables anyway so it was easy. I have been using the older PA + for years as a sub xover but that was on a second output. This time I put the 360 in between the C1000 and the 501's so it could work on the EQ to my mains as well as the sub. I've never had better sub integration than I have now and it found a lot of peaks and valleys to correct in my (untreated) room. I am going to run through the auto eq again tonight as I realize I didn't put the mic in the correct measurement positions according to their instructions.

I had done this with the PA + a decade ago and I could just "hear" it in the chain. Now (when bypassed) with the 360 I cannot. I believe the PA+ was 24/44 and the 360 is 24/96. It's silent, and transparent - and the iPad app is cool as hell! I love being able to play with the sub crossover slopes, parametric and graphic eq slopes, etc right from my couch. It's 1/10 the cost of the McIntosh MEN220 that I always wanted to play with, and that had no remote interface.

This appears to be a more affordable version of what I had hoped the new DSpeaker X4 ended up as. I am seriously interested but cautious. Glad you are liking it. There was a thread over on ASR about it. But I don’t venture there much these days.

It's definitely Pro gear (+4 db) but it seems to have no issue with my consumer (-10db) gear. It never makes any noises whatsoever (pops, clicks, hums) and it goes into a protective mute mode whenever you are in the auto tuning wizards. I was nervous about anything directly connected to 500 watt amps, but it has behaved like a champ.

For half the cost, the PA2 looks like a good bet too if you don't want direct digital in. I almost bought one and then this 360 popped up on CL. So many pro sound guys are dumping their rigs now because covid just killed the live sound market. There are tons of both units available now both online and on CL.

 

[S0und Dragon]

This would work for me as I use one of my line outs to feed pro bump boxes for my Benchmark studio meters. A ridiculous little luxury for what is essentially bouncing meters. This would at least render that setup functional. Last question at the moment, does it have bypass capability?

Specifications​

Input	(3) analog line inputs/(2) AES digital inputs (shared connectors), (1) RTA mic input
Input Connectors	(3) female XLRs (2 selectable between analog/AES digital audio formats), (1) female XLR RTA mic input
Input Type	Electronically balanced/RF filtered
Input Impedance	> 30 kΩ, balanced line to line
Max Input Level (line inputs)	> +28 dBu, balanced, ≤1% THD
CMRR	> 50 dB @ 1 kHz
RTA Mic Preamp Phantom Power	+48 VDC
Output	(6) Line Outputs
Output Connectors	Male XLR
Output Type	Electronically balanced, RF filtered
Output Impedance	120 Ω, balanced line to line
Max Output Level	+22 dBu, balanced, ≤1% THD
Alignment Delay	Up to 1000 ms per output channel
A/D Converter	24-bit with dbx Type IV™ Conversion System
A/D Dynamic Range	117 dB A-weighted, 114 dB unweighted, 22 kHz BW
Type IV Dynamic Range	129 dB with transient material, A-weighted, 22 kHz BW; 126 dB with transient material, unweighted, 22 kHz BW; 121 dB typical with program material, A-weighted, 22 kHz BW
D/A Converter	24-bit
D/A Dynamic Range	116 dB A-weighted, 113 dB unweighted, 22 kHz BW
Internal Processing Wordlength	32-bit floating point
Supported Sample Rates	48/96 kHz (32-192 kHz using sample rate conversion)
System Performance Dynamic Range	114 dB A-weighted; 110 dB unweighted
THD+Noise	0.0025% typical at +4 dBu, 1 kHz, 0 dB input gain
Frequency Response	20 Hz – 20 kHz, +0 /- 0.5 dB
Interchannel Crosstalk	< -97 dB, -105 dB typical 20-20 kHz, +4 dBu, all channels measured
Latency	Analog input to output: 2.57 ms (48 kHz), 2.28 ms (96 kHz); Digital AES input to output: 2.31 (48 kHz), 2.15 ms (96 kHz)
Operating Voltage	100-240 VAC 50/60 Hz
Power Consumption	18 W
Unit Weight	5.48 lbs. (2.49 kg)
Shipping Weight	7.10 lbs. (3.22 kg)
Dimensions	1.75” (H) x 8.0” (D) x 19” (W), 4.4cm (H) x 20.32cm (D) x 48.26cm (W)

dbx DriveRack VENU360

control app for all 4 major OSes All the processing needed to supercharge your sound ...

dbxpro.com

 

[jblnut]

Just checking in here to follow the progress. And no worries if the discussion had continued on that other thread. It's all good !

 

[S0und Dragon]

Just checking in here to follow the progress. And no worries if the discussion had continued on that other thread. It's all good !

Thanks bud. I didn't want to detract from your fabulous Hornering....hornying...Horning....Horn Stuff!

 

[John Frum]

I’ve been batting around the idea of a DriveRack since the original PA was current, and the Venu360 looks to be the one where DBX has finally nailed it.

It doesn’t do everything MiniDSP does, but the better interface means a lot.

If I weren’t aiming for minimalism, I’d have one. Certainly, for speaker experimenters, I can’t imagine a better DSP buy.

 

[jblnut]

Ok I have removed the 360 from my living room system. It is headed to join the big JBLs in my buddy's man cave. After listening to it for a few weeks I did realize that I could hear it in the system although it was more transparent than the PA+. You lose a little of that audiophile magic with this in the mix, while you gain better control of the room especially in the bass. I realized I was missing a lot of the buried spatial info and "air" around instruments with it engaged. It really came down to volume i think. With the volume low and me listening intently, it obscured some things too much. But loud, it was magic and really cleaned up the boom in the room.

If it comes back here to replace the PA+, it will only be used as a sub crossover.

 

[John Frum]

Ok I have removed the 360 from my living room system. It is headed to join the big JBLs in my buddy's man cave. After listening to it for a few weeks I did realize that I could hear it in the system although it was more transparent than the PA+. You lose a little of that audiophile magic with this in the mix, while you gain better control of the room especially in the bass. I realized I was missing a lot of the buried spatial info and "air" around instruments with it engaged. It really came down to volume i think. With the volume low and me listening intently, it obscured some things too much. But loud, it was magic and really cleaned up the boom in the room.

If it comes back here to replace the PA+, it will only be used as a sub crossover.

This was the conclusion I came to with the Dayton DSP-408 - worked great on for lowpass and EQ on the woofers, but that was as far as I wanted to use it.

 

[S0und Dragon]

I kind of wish I held onto my DSpeaker 2.0 for use as a sub crossover sometimes. My biggest concern with it was that it was basically down converting everything to 24/96. Which seemed counterintuitive.

 

[240sx4u]

I kind of wish I held onto my DSpeaker 2.0 for use as a sub crossover sometimes. My biggest concern with it was that it was basically down converting everything to 24/96. Which seemed counterintuitive.

I doubt you'd be able to tell on subs, at all.

All this fun has me thinking I should dig my minidsp 2x4 back out for subwoofer duty. I had planned on it but it's not really "needed" at this point because my amp has DSP built in.

 

[jblnut]

So...a funny thing happened last night. After weeks of waiting (mandatory covid quarantine here in my house) I was finally able to get over to @taylorplayer's place last night for the much anticipated union of the 360 and the JBL 4760's. We had been anticipating this for a while now and I had used the intervening weeks to get used to the 360 and play with it in my main system. As you may have noted above, I decided that it wasn't a positive force in my system overall. While it did calm the bass nodes in the room and made the mains->sub bass transition basically seamless, it wasn't exactly transparent in the midrange or highs.

So we ripped out the old AudioArts 2-way crossover and Yamaha 1/3 octave pro eq and inserted the 360 with all of the new cables I had to buy (to adapt XLR to RCA). We had some fun running through the wizards and getting it all setup. And the music began...

The magic was gone.

While it was certainly "balanced" and "polite", all of the energy, dynamics and drive that made the system so much fun were now absent. No matter how much I played with xover slopes, and the EQs (both parametric and graphic) I just could not get back what we had before. It was what I had heard in my own system, but magnified. Could the 4670's be even more revealing of the upstream electronics than my cherished Revels ? Yes indeed that would seem to be the case.

So, the 360 is now going to replace the PA+ as my sub xover, and that's all. It will not be "in path" for the mains or do any room EQ. What I do get is the ability to adjust the bass xover and sub EQ from my couch with an ipad so that's a (small) win overall.

Sorry to get everyone's hopes up, but I am not sure that the 360 would be welcome in the system of a serious audiophile. It is just not transparent enough.

It was a fun experiment though and the 4670's continue to amaze and astound - even with the admittedly hokey and ancient signal path we have going. The system should not sound amazing - but it does. We're done messing with it.

 

[S0und Dragon]

So...a funny thing happened last night. After weeks of waiting (mandatory covid quarantine here in my house) I was finally able to get over to @taylorplayer's place last night for the much anticipated union of the 360 and the JBL 4760's. We had been anticipating this for a while now and I had used the intervening weeks to get used to the 360 and play with it in my main system. As you may have noted above, I decided that it wasn't a positive force in my system overall. While it did calm the bass nodes in the room and made the mains->sub bass transition basically seamless, it wasn't exactly transparent in the midrange or highs.

So we ripped out the old AudioArts 2-way crossover and Yamaha 1/3 octave pro eq and inserted the 360 with all of the new cables I had to buy (to adapt XLR to RCA). We had some fun running through the wizards and getting it all setup. And the music began...

The magic was gone.

While it was certainly "balanced" and "polite", all of the energy, dynamics and drive that made the system so much fun were now absent. No matter how much I played with xover slopes, and the EQs (both parametric and graphic) I just could not get back what we had before. It was what I had heard in my own system, but magnified. Could the 4670's be even more revealing of the upstream electronics than my cherished Revels ? Yes indeed that would seem to be the case.

So, the 360 is now going to replace the PA+ as my sub xover, and that's all. It will not be "in path" for the mains or do any room EQ. What I do get is the ability to adjust the bass xover and sub EQ from my couch with an ipad so that's a (small) win overall.

Sorry to get everyone's hopes up, but I am not sure that the 360 would be welcome in the system of a serious audiophile. It is just not transparent enough.

It was a fun experiment though and the 4670's continue to amaze and astound - even with the admittedly hokey and ancient signal path we have going. The system should not sound amazing - but it does. We're done messing with it.

Thanks for the update. You have potentially saved me time and money. Both extremely valuable commodities. I am in your debt.

 

[jblnut]

This has also taught me a valuable lesson (that I keep learning over and over in this hobby) - and that is you need to live with a new change for a period of time. There is definitely a "honeymoon" with each change where we think "wow this new thing is great!". But you need to evaluate it over time with lots of different music and different levels before reaching a solid conclusion. I was initially wowed by the total removal of some bass anomalies caused by room nodes. I was so focused on that that I didn't notice the sound stage collapse or the removal of 'air' around the vocalists or instruments. Our minds go off in different audio directions and can get focused on one thing, to the exclusion of others.

The 360 is still a ton of fun to play with and would be useful in a non-critical setting. Given you can pick one up used and then re-sell later, it's not like you're going to be out very much after the experience. Except for maybe the stack of XLR-> RCA cables you need to buy to use it in most home settings.

Anyone need some XLR->RCA cables ? :-)