The final (Altec) frontier?

For many years I used subs with a SS amp to augment the low end of my main speakers driven by tube amps. Crossover in the 60 to 125 range depending on the main speakers. Eventually though I concluded the gain in LF extension and power just wasn’t worth the tradeoff in coherency. Once I became attuned to it, I was always aware of when the sub was operating and it colored the sound of the main speakers.

Different people will reach their own conclusions about this, but for me the conclusion was to live without the sub. Coherency is very important to achieving realistic music reproduction, and subs in my opinion simply get in the way.

However I totally understand the frustration with the 414 low end. That’s what led me to replace it with a Jensen 15” woofer. The Jensen P15LL doesn’t have as much deep bass and overall weight as the 416, but it has a fast, detailed midrange that allows it to shine in a 2-way system and it has more LF weight than the 414.
 

Audionut

Next Round Is On Me
For many years I used subs with a SS amp to augment the low end of my main speakers driven by tube amps. Crossover in the 60 to 125 range depending on the main speakers. Eventually though I concluded the gain in LF extension and power just wasn’t worth the tradeoff in coherency. Once I became attuned to it, I was always aware of when the sub was operating and it colored the sound of the main speakers.

Different people will reach their own conclusions about this, but for me the conclusion was to live without the sub. Coherency is very important to achieving realistic music reproduction, and subs in my opinion simply get in the way.

However I totally understand the frustration with the 414 low end. That’s what led me to replace it with a Jensen 15” woofer. The Jensen P15LL doesn’t have as much deep bass and overall weight as the 416, but it has a fast, detailed midrange that allows it to shine in a 2-way system and it has more LF weight than the 414.
Having tried a single sub, too much (or to high) bass definitely muddled the midrange, so understand what you mean. I do hope my voyage into modern stereo subs with DSP yields better results than yours or @billfort . If not, my saving grace will be a set of 416Z’s, which Bill mentioned having better success implementing.
 
Stereo subs certainly have a better chance of success than a single sub. You can hear the change in space and air when switching from a single to a stereo pair, even when there’s no bass to speak of, and that was with an 18db crossover.
 
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