The Springless LP12

It sounds like the AUDIOSILENTE SILICONE MUSHROOMS fit is quite a bit better on the LP12.

Frankly, the mushies fit so perfectly into the STACK AUDIO TENOR sub-chassis recesses, that it looks like they were made for each other.

The only clue that the mushies might not be original, are the long and (now) slightly redundant-looking tails on the black top-plate bolts.

The "new" sound of the springless LP12 is anything but constrained. It really soars, is extended at both frequency extremes and has an air of "unflappability" to it. It's hard to describe, but compared to our previously well-fettled sprung affair, the springless version sounds like the "grown-up" LP12 version.

It seems your results on the AR hot-rod are slightly different - although different cartridges always bring their own sonic signature, so that factor could well be muddying the waters.

Keep at it!

:popcorn
 
It seems your results on the AR hot-rod are slightly different - although different cartridges always bring their own sonic signature, so that factor could well be muddying the waters.

Keep at it!

:popcorn
I think part of it is also me making too many changes at once. I'm still trying to get a read on this Cello/Miyabi cartridge...it's been on 3 turntables in 3 weeks. So throw the new suspension into the mix, and the results are anything but scientific. I'll say that this cart sounds great on it, and better than the other two options...one of which was a sprung, but not 3-point, Linn competitor (Strathcylde STD-150 with an SME-V on it).
Either way I'm enjoying it, and I LOVE that the bouncy-bounce is largely gone. Nothing like hearing the arm bounce across the table knowing there's a few-grand worth of cantilever acting as another spring in it all.
 
The AR was sitting on the sidelines for a time and even after the mod was stuff in a cabinet where I really couldn't tweak the setup well enough. Over the weekend I dug it back out and spent a good deal of time playing around with different carts on it, eventually tweaking the setup of my Miyabi into perfection. And finally getting a true feel for the 'springless' vibe.

I'm really loving it ...even more than before. I can walk around, yes, without the cart skipping across the record, but more than that, its just altogether more usable and user-friendly as a table. I can use a center-weight, or not, without throwing off the springs. And the sounds is fantastic. There -might- be a hint of bloom that's gone, replaced with more precision and 'put togetherness' .

My table has an motor controlled by an off-board controller and is generally pretty quiet anyway so there's not a ton of vibration to tackle but even so... there's nothing getting through. You can just tell in the sound. Very nice.
 
The AR was sitting on the sidelines for a time and even after the mod was stuff in a cabinet where I really couldn't tweak the setup well enough. Over the weekend I dug it back out and spent a good deal of time playing around with different carts on it, eventually tweaking the setup of my Miyabi into perfection. And finally getting a true feel for the 'springless' vibe.

I'm really loving it ...even more than before. I can walk around, yes, without the cart skipping across the record, but more than that, its just altogether more usable and user-friendly as a table. I can use a center-weight, or not, without throwing off the springs. And the sounds is fantastic. There -might- be a hint of bloom that's gone, replaced with more precision and 'put togetherness' .

My table has an motor controlled by an off-board controller and is generally pretty quiet anyway so there's not a ton of vibration to tackle but even so... there's nothing getting through. You can just tell in the sound. Very nice.

I'm delighted to hear that the springless results on your AR are positive, John.

I've never spent any time with the AR deck, so I was unsure if the AR sub-chassis had as much potential for lateral travel, as an LP12. So, I was unsure how going springless would change the sound.

It seems that removing the "singing" springs seems to have worked on the AR too. Congrats!
 
I'm delighted to hear that the springless results on your AR are positive, John.

I've never spent any time with the AR deck, so I was unsure if the AR sub-chassis had as much potential for lateral travel, as an LP12. So, I was unsure how going springless would change the sound.

It seems that removing the "singing" springs seems to have worked on the AR too. Congrats!
At this point my 'AR' is probably as close to any given Linn as it is an AR. I'm never sure what to call it, with all the Merrill parts in it, so it just gets referred to as the type it started life as.

The bounciness of the old springs was such that it severely diminished my enjoyment of the table, and there's no way I was going to use a wall-mount in my living room. When any big of audio gear demands that level of sacrifice to your environment, its simply not a great design.
 
I keep seeing The Spineless LP12 whenever I see this thread title.

Carry on! 😁

I own a cheaper LP12 clone that actually didn't sound half bad when I was running it many years ago, but I certainly never had issues with its springs. But, most of its time was on a rock solid shelving unit or on a heavy cabinet in my parents' basement. I did miss its isolation, though.
 
I keep seeing The Spineless LP12 whenever I see this thread title.

Carry on! 😁

I own a cheaper LP12 clone that actually didn't sound half bad when I was running it many years ago, but I certainly never had issues with its springs. But, most of its time was on a rock solid shelving unit or on a heavy cabinet in my parents' basement. I did miss its isolation, though.
I had a Systemdek IX that lived its life on a sturdy wall-mounted shelf. With the shelf, bounce wasn't a problem though I doubt the springs were close to being set up correctly. It sounded good, but the motor eventually died and I didn't think it sounded enough to put any more money in (especially when I had about 10 other tables laying around at the time).

My Merrill/AR/Gem Dandy/Black Diamond/Jelco/heavily modified monstrosity, however, is one of the better turntables I have ever heard. Heck the tonearm cable coming out the bottom cost more than the Systemdek. The springless mod didn't so much change the sound (it sounded great already, but sound wasn't negatively impacted) as it did make it something I could happily live with.
 
... as it did make it something I could happily live with.
That was a larger reason of why I changed turntables last year in June. What I had was way too fussy. Sounded great when the planets were aligned correctly, but there were other days where, if it didn't way 50+ pounds, I'd have chucked it out the nearest window. I just want to play records. 🤷‍♂️ I do sort of miss the days of fussing around with different systems and components, but I'm at a stage now where I just want to turn something on at the end of the day and it just works, and sounds good.
 
That was a larger reason of why I changed turntables last year in June. What I had was way too fussy. Sounded great when the planets were aligned correctly, but there were other days where, if it didn't way 50+ pounds, I'd have chucked it out the nearest window. I just want to play records. 🤷‍♂️ I do sort of miss the days of fussing around with different systems and components, but I'm at a stage now where I just want to turn something on at the end of the day and it just works, and sounds good.
This table is very easy now. It has a button for speed. The arm is manual but not wobbly like my VPI was. The cart sounds good on almost all pressings not just audiophile stuff. The phono stage is solid state and loves the cart. The preamp is remote control. I’m over suffering for good sound especially when this system, which is easy, is the best sounding one I’ve ever had.
 
This table is very easy now. It has a button for speed. The arm is manual but not wobbly like my VPI was. The cart sounds good on almost all pressings not just audiophile stuff. The phono stage is solid state and loves the cart. The preamp is remote control. I’m over suffering for good sound especially when this system, which is easy, is the best sounding one I’ve ever had.
Just like me. Mission accomplished! 🥂 When's the rekkid party? 😁
 
Just like me. Mission accomplished! 🥂 When's the rekkid party? 😁
Come on over! I have a few thousand discs to spin.

I say that my hobby is stereo stuff but turntables and records are really the things that it’s all about for me.
 
...I own a cheaper LP12 clone that actually didn't sound half bad when I was running it many years ago, but I certainly never had issues with its springs....

Rudy, none of the springless converts actually had any operational issues with the springs - other than the inconvenience of the bounce, when preparing to play a record.

The reason for going springless is for the improved speed stability - and thereby, the improved sonics.

That said, I'm totally with @JohnVF in NOT missing that infernal bounce! 😂
 
Rudy, none of the springless converts actually had any operational issues with the springs - other than the inconvenience of the bounce, when preparing to play a record.
I never had an issue with the bounce either but I get it--the speed stability would be an improvement for any turntable. 👍
 
After a bit of time off the Springless Frankenstein Merrill/Gem Dandy/AR/Jelco table is back in place as the star of the show and MAN do I not miss those springs AT ALL. It sounds fantastic...I forget just how good this turntable is. And despite being cobbled together from a bunch of mods, it has great customer support...I had a slight motor issue and emailed Gem Dandy and George Merrill replied in 15 minutes with what was wrong and how to easily fix it. That guy's the real deal.

One thing the springless-vibe opens up is arm options, since the squishy balls won't be thrown off by arm weight...so I'm going to buy some more armboards from George and trot one of my lighter arms out. Probably the Grace 704.
 
I’d love to see this for an Oracle. They were designed for light arms, and they have been spending the last 25 years working at making heavy arms, like the SME V, work with that suspension.
 
I’d love to see this for an Oracle. They were designed for light arms, and they have been spending the last 25 years working at making heavy arms, like the SME V, work with that suspension.
Where are the actual springs in the Oracle? Are they inside the pod towers? Or does the chassis hang from them? I remember the degree of bounce in one that i was looking at scared me off from buying it.

The springless setup has isolation but the silicon balls stay in place and they're firm enough where I could put the SME-V here on this table....that said, its on another suspended deck but one that wasn't made to be as bouncy as a Linn, despite being a Linn competitor. It works really well on that table (the Strathclyde).
 
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