Topping D70 vs the passage of time.

I can not believe I forgot about my Magnavox CD-2000 (2 of them actually:) with the 1543 chip. My best sounding cd player. I need to find one of them and have a Schiit Bifrost 4490 vs Topping D30 vs. CD-2000 shootout on my new system.
 
Have any of you D70 owners had the chance to compare USB to coaxial?
Last night I had a mad thought of buying a D10 and using it as a breakout box to compare the two, but would, of course, rather not buy another box that I will have to sell again.
I'm hoping the answer will be 'don't bother' or 'spend the money on beer'

Phil
 
Have any of you D70 owners had the chance to compare USB to coaxial?
Last night I had a mad thought of buying a D10 and using it as a breakout box to compare the two, but would, of course, rather not buy another box that I will have to sell again.
I'm hoping the answer will be 'don't bother' or 'spend the money on beer'

Phil
This would be a difficult comparison to make unless one had a source that had both coax and USB output. Otherwise, what you are hearing would be to some extent dependent on the differing source quality, and not necessarily only a direct indicator of the DAC's handling of SPDIF vs. USB.

I definitely don't see the logic in converting USB through a D10, just so that you can output SPDIF to the D70, as needless conversions tend only to lessen sound quality, and you are adding another connecting cable and thus path/potential for ground loop. Such a scenario would also be influenced by the USB power quality fed to the D10.

Now if you had an opportunity to get your hands on a high quality SPDIF source, say for instance, a HiFiBerry Digi+ Pro, or Allo DigiOne Signature, or even just a very high quality PC sound card with a low noise power supplied coax output, that might be interesting because there is no USB->SPDIF conversion involved with that.

The input I'd really like to hear about from a D70 owner if converting from USB is the I²S input (LVDS over an HDMI interface), although there too just as with SPDIF it would likely be best not to convert from USB, and instead find a source with I²S output, but those are very few and far between at the moment.

The TL : DR version is don't bother, spend it on beer (my 2 cents).

What USB source do you currently use?
 
The only way I could make that comparison would be to use my April Music Stello U3 USB-Coax converter but even then I'd just as likely be comparing the Stello to the USB input on the Topping. I have that leftover from when I used the Berkeley Alpha as my DAC for my computer based server. It doesn't have a USB input.

I have used the USB input on the D70 but only for watching movies... HDMI to projector from a laptop, USB to the DAC. I don't use a computer in my stereo anymore, other than for watching movies so the USB input gets used very little.
 
This would be a difficult comparison to make unless one had a source that had both coax and USB output. Otherwise, what you are hearing would be to some extent dependent on the differing source quality, and not necessarily only a direct indicator of the DAC's handling of SPDIF vs. USB.

I definitely don't see the logic in converting USB through a D10, just so that you can output SPDIF to the D70, as needless conversions tend only to lessen sound quality, and you are adding another connecting cable and thus path/potential for ground loop. Such a scenario would also be influenced by the USB power quality fed to the D10.

Now if you had an opportunity to get your hands on a high quality SPDIF source, say for instance, a HiFiBerry Digi+ Pro, or Allo DigiOne Signature, or even just a very high quality PC sound card with a low noise power supplied coax output, that might be interesting because there is no USB->SPDIF conversion involved with that.

The input I'd really like to hear about from a D70 owner if converting from USB is the I²S input (LVDS over an HDMI interface), although there too just as with SPDIF it would likely be best not to convert from USB, and instead find a source with I²S output, but those are very few and far between at the moment.

The TL : DR version is don't bother, spend it on beer (my 2 cents).

What USB source do you currently use?
Right , it does seem a bit complex, and maybe inviting in some gremlins...I'm currently just going from
laptop to D70 via some upgraded usb cables and Ifi noise reducing gizmos.
Happy with the result, but also...never happy with the result (The Curse Of Man)
 
The only way I could make that comparison would be to use my April Music Stello U3 USB-Coax converter but even then I'd just as likely be comparing the Stello to the USB input on the Topping. I have that leftover from when I used the Berkeley Alpha as my DAC for my computer based server. It doesn't have a USB input.

I have used the USB input on the D70 but only for watching movies... HDMI to projector from a laptop, USB to the DAC. I don't use a computer in my stereo anymore, other than for watching movies so the USB input gets used very little.
You strictly using a CD transport, John?
 
You strictly using a CD transport, John?
My source for the Topping is a BlueSound Vault2 via Coax. That handles streaming and it's also my server with a few thousand CDs ripped to it. I have a separate CD/SACD player for when I want to use physical digital media, an EMM Labs/Meitner CDSAse (what a convoluted name!). It does sound better then the Topping, especially when using SACD with the player, but it doesn't run away with it, and I think that is impressive given the extraordinary original MSRP difference between the two.

There are times when one source has ruined me using another source. Like when I got my Ortofon Candenza LOMC, it made me not want to listen to any of my other carts. It's not a case of that between the Topping and EMM Labs player. There's a difference but its not jarring and both are above my threshold for being thoroughly enjoyable.
 
That SACD player is a nice looking piece. Great to hear (from a selfish perspective) that the Topping isn't completely outclassed by
that sleek looking thing.
Would love to hear a cart of that calibre on my Dual 1019. Although my M75 is very satisfying, I do often wonder what this deck is capable of with something from the higher leagues.
A friend of mine spent a huge amount on a cart for his modern deck (Rega I think) and I'm always impressed with the control and listenability of it.
 
That SACD player is a nice looking piece. Great to hear (from a selfish perspective) that the Topping isn't completely outclassed by
that sleek looking thing.
Would love to hear a cart of that calibre on my Dual 1019. Although my M75 is very satisfying, I do often wonder what this deck is capable of with something from the higher leagues.
A friend of mine spent a huge amount on a cart for his modern deck (Rega I think) and I'm always impressed with the control and listenability of it.
I had a Dual 701 with some version of the ULM arm on it, and it very capably handled an Audio Technica OC-9ml2 LOMC. I know the 1019 is an idler, the 701 a DD, but the arms looks somewhat similar? Mine was also rewired and the cart sled deleted from the equation but the arm did like that cart.

And thanks for the kind words on the SACD player. I didn't pay anywhere near list on it, found it quite cheap used, actually. It's often listed as being one of the best single-box SACD players ever made and it truly is a very nice player. It really sounded better than a Marantz Reference SA-11s2 I had..more transparent, lively, dynamic. But I think the Topping sounds better than the Marantz player as well, going by memory. That was an apx $3500 CD player in the late '00s. I'd like to have that player around as a transport, though...it had a phenomenal transport in it, just rock solid and it felt nice to use it. It was an example of build quality just not translating to an engaging sound quality, at least not for my preferences.
 
Just some additional thoughts regarding DACs and the mystery of Digital playback:
My system is old. That's where I've settled.
PC---Various flashy looking USB gadgets--1975 Amp--1983 speakers
The D70 sounds way more enjoyable than the MHDT Tube DAC through this system.
It matches beautifully. A very enjoyable setup. Very probably the best sound I've had in my home.
If...you have a new, fast system, it may well be (?) that a tube DAC would fit better.
Strangely, the tube DAC sounded better direct through headphones
Topping D70--MassdropTHX789--Beyer 880PRO = Clear and pretty nice. but not as enjoyable as...
MHDT Canary--MassdropTHX789--Beyer 880PRO (Warm and...near perfect)
I'm sure I'm not saying anything particularly shocking to you lot, but just thought I better write it down to help anyone
else on this journey.
Have a nice evening
Phil
 
Thanks for sharing, good stuff that agrees with my personal observations as well - system synergy is very important.
 
Just some additional thoughts regarding DACs and the mystery of Digital playback:
My system is old. That's where I've settled.
PC---Various flashy looking USB gadgets--1975 Amp--1983 speakers
The D70 sounds way more enjoyable than the MHDT Tube DAC through this system.
It matches beautifully. A very enjoyable setup. Very probably the best sound I've had in my home.
If...you have a new, fast system, it may well be (?) that a tube DAC would fit better.
Strangely, the tube DAC sounded better direct through headphones
Topping D70--MassdropTHX789--Beyer 880PRO = Clear and pretty nice. but not as enjoyable as...
MHDT Canary--MassdropTHX789--Beyer 880PRO (Warm and...near perfect)
I'm sure I'm not saying anything particularly shocking to you lot, but just thought I better write it down to help anyone
else on this journey.
Have a nice evening
Phil
Thanks for the detailed listening impressions and thoughts.

I've been reading the few comparisons I can find between the D70 and the D90. There aren't many but what's there suggests the D90 is a bit more 'hi fi' sounding. Maybe tighter bass? Maybe a little less 'fluid' sounding in favor of clarity and detail? I have a pretty modern setup and its very neutral, and the D70 fits right in. Maybe the D90 would be too clinical, I don't know... I'm curious and may try it but its not the first thing on my list.

ONe thing I've figured out is that the D-90 MQA is not useful to me, even though I'm one of those confounding people who hear a positive difference in MQA playback. Its only fully unfolds MQA over its USB input and I access everything through a BlueSound Vault with coax output. So... oh well. Its not that important to me, so I won't lose any sleep. And it also makes the option of getting the D90 a cheaper proposition as the D90 MQA is a quite a bit more expensive.
 
Ive wondered about what you write of in your second paragraph John (makes sense to me) and have read at least one report of someone preferring the sound of the D70 over the D90.
 
Ive wondered about what you write of in your second paragraph John (makes sense to me) and have read at least one report of someone preferring the sound of the D70 over the D90.
I have to imagine that they're differences of a smallish degree, and probably system dependent. I might hold out to see what's next. The AKM factory had a devastating fire so if anybody wants a D90 (or D70) what's left in stock at places is all that's around until, apparently, April.
 
Just had to check/remind myself what MQA was.
Very often Spotify sounds better than my FLACS. No idea what's happening there.
Have tried to check my settings to ascertain why.
I've probably shot myself in the foot there, regarding any of my future findings...
---
I think at this price point (500 for a Giant Killer) that I may have very well reached the zenith of what is currently possible.
The high frequencies on my system are so tamed by my speakers that it's highly unlikely
I could hear any positive difference between the '70 and the '90 anyway.
A case worth considering is that, although I enjoy the sound of my $1000+ digital headphone setup,
I also enjoy, for other reasons, and sometimes more, the sound coming from my
LG V10 phone into $8 Panasonic earbuds.
I am, under the surface, quite a Cheap Date.

Phil
 
I can not believe I forgot about my Magnavox CD-2000 (2 of them actually:) with the 1543 chip. My best sounding cd player. I need to find one of them and have a Schiit Bifrost 4490 vs Topping D30 vs. CD-2000 shootout on my new system.
This is a question I would be very interested in finding out an answer to.
I was very much part of the CD generation, much to my pains now, looking at vinyl prices.
Occasionally I glance at the classifieds and wonder how some of these old players would compare to our modern computer setups...
 
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