When are Valencia’s no longer Valencia’s?

[Jackmowbray]

Went down this rabbit hole a couple years when I brought these 846A’s home. Good thing I have several 16 ohm tube amps…



I was pretty impressed with the scale of the sound initially but soon turned to wondering about improvements…

First I tried super tweeters to boost the hf and some subs for the bottom end.

Still Valencia’s at this point.

Then I took the backs off for a more open (baffle) like sound. Lost some punch as well as unwanted cabinet resonances. Subs helped compensate for the reduced dynamics.

Still Valencia’s

Removed the 800hz Altec crossover and added Marchand active crossed over at 1200 hz 24 db curve. PP EL84’s driving the 416’s and SE EL84’s on the 806’s.

Still Valencia’s? Maybe

Removed 806a driver from 811’s and installed BMS 4550 drivers - back to 2-way! Sounds very good.

No longer Valencia’s?

Considering replacing the 811’s with printed multicells up top. I lf I do this, the only original component will be the woofers. Pretty sure I can’t call these Valencia’s any more.

So, since I probably no longer have “Valencia’s”, I feel somewhat liberated from that ‘box’ and I’m currently reading through all the great information here to figure out how to transform whatever it is that I have into some new, improved and optimized cabinets for these components.

Looking at Onken and other bass bins that will improve the bass response of the 416’s.

Any suggestions are most welcome

 

[old_borg]

After owning (and selling) both the A & B versions of the Valencias, I came to regard the veneer and woofer as the only worthwhile parts of the speaker. Glad to hear I'm not alone in this sentiment.

 

[MrEd]

There's a couple of onken builds on here.
I just finished a pair.
They won't disappoint you, and you may no longer need the subs.
Down side is they are big and the build is definitely not as easy as it looks.

 

[Jackmowbray]

At the moment, I’m kinda leaning towards a MLTL or folded horn format. I want deeper LF extension from the 416’s. FWIW, I like what a Karlson K-12 does for a 12” woofer. Maybe a 15” Karlson?

 

[MrEd]

I've wanted to try a Karlson build some time.

 

[mhardy6647]

A Santiago is kinda sorta like a Valencia with bass.

ahem. FWIW, I would posit that if there is a "sleeper" Altec of yore, it's the Santiago. Nobody wants 'em because they don't have the right woofers and they're a bit less sensitive than Valencias. But... they' ain't bad at all, and they're affordable. Well, at least they were when I picked up a pair of them. Ridiculously affordable, in fact.



I actually quite liked the Valencias that lived here for quite a while -- but bear in mind their immediate predecessors were a pair of Klipsch Cornwalls (i.e., it's all relative). 😎

 

[Drugolf]

A Santiago is kinda sorta like a Valencia with bass.

ahem. FWIW, I would posit that if there is a "sleeper" Altec of yore, it's the Santiago. Nobody wants 'em because they don't have the right woofers and they're a bit less sensitive than Valencias. But... they' ain't bad at all, and they're affordable. Well, at least they were when I picked up a pair of them. Ridiculously affordable, in fact.

I actually quite liked the Valencias that lived here for quite a while -- but bear in mind their immediate predecessors were a pair of Klipsch Cornwalls (i.e., it's all relative). 😎

I agree. I've had Valencia's and Santiago's and I too liked the Santiago's better once I recapped them.

 

[Jackmowbray]

So, being the patient person that I am (yeah, right), and not wanting to do anything irreversible, I simply flipped the cabinets upside down to see how the 416’s sound when elevated. I’ll put the backs back on for this and might play around with port size to see if I can coax some decent bass out of this box.



Nothing is hooked up yet so I don’t know how it sounds but will report back shortly.

 

[adnick]

The center of the woofers on my AS101s are about 32 inches off the floor, made a huge difference….mono amps drive them with external Z19 xover’s, horns & tweeters use external Warner xover’s driven by a modified ST70—currently the horns are Smith/JBL wood, 2 inch 2441 drivers & 075 tweeters

Guess they aren’t AS101s anymore

 

[Audionut]

So, being the patient person that I am (yeah, right), and not wanting to do anything irreversible, I simply flipped the cabinets upside down to see how the 416’s sound when elevated. I’ll put the backs back on for this and might play around with port size to see if I can coax some decent bass out of this box.

View attachment 88513

Nothing is hooked up yet so I don’t know how it sounds but will report back shortly.

They look more correct already! Now the real question is; did we already discuss those wood multicellular horns to the left(?)

 

[Jackmowbray]

Do you mean the ones in my avatar?

 

[Jackmowbray]

Better view but still pretty dusty…



These Centurions were built in Japan around 1960. American GI had the EV factory kits shipped to Japan to be professionally assembled and loaded with locally available components. He had them shipped back to the States when his tour was over. Eventually made their way into my hands.

Interestingly, I got a similar story from local AKer KC when I picked up the Karlson K12’s that were loaded with Pioneer PIM triaxials.

US Gov’t personnel rotating back stateside with cabs loaded with high quality Japanese drivers…

 

[Jackmowbray]

The center of the woofers on my AS101s are about 32 inches off the floor, made a huge difference….mono amps drive them with external Z19 xover’s, horns & tweeters use external Warner xover’s driven by a modified ST70—currently the horns are Smith/JBL wood, 2 inch 2441 drivers & 075 tweeters

Guess they aren’t AS101s anymore

These made it a whole 8” higher (from 12” to 20”) so I’m not expecting a lot. We shall see.

 

[Jackmowbray]

Better view but still pretty dusty…

View attachment 88514

These Centurions were built in Japan around 1960. American GI had the EV factory kits shipped to Japan to be professionally assembled and loaded with locally available components. He had them shipped back to the States when his tour was over. Eventually made their way into my hands.

Interestingly, I got a similar story from local AKer KC when I picked up the Karlson K12’s that were loaded with Pioneer PIM triaxials.

US Gov’t personnel rotating back stateside with cabs loaded with high quality Japanese drivers…

This is in the doghouse

 

[Jackmowbray]

So, being the patient person that I am (yeah, right), and not wanting to do anything irreversible, I simply flipped the cabinets upside down to see how the 416’s sound when elevated. I’ll put the backs back on for this and might play around with port size to see if I can coax some decent bass out of this box.

View attachment 88513

Nothing is hooked up yet so I don’t know how it sounds but will report back shortly.

Sounding very nice and keeping up with the printed horns. Crossover set at 880 Hz 12 db curve. Sounding at least as good as the 811’s and will be competing with the K12’s for the supporting role with Early’s H1000’s (another thread) when they get here.

 

[ponchogto]

Bought the HealthKit versions back in 1975. Took the horns out to stop the ringing, retuning the port. My wife like the sound so much she gave her approval. Now they are in 7 cu ft enclosures. 12" Klipsch powered sub doesn't add any to the sound except mud. Back in75 they were powered by a Marantz 2270. now they are powered by a Parasound Hint 7. They are Valencias in spirit. Save the cabs if you change out.

 

[adnick]

I’m essentially running “Valencia’s” (Heathkit 101s) 8 ohm woofers driven by modified Dynaco MKIIIs through Z19 crossovers
Mid range is custom wood Smith type horns with 16 ohm JBL 2441 drivers
Tweeters are 075 16 ohm JBL
Mid & Tweeters are currently driven by an ST70 through separate Werner’s autoformers crossovers for mids & highs

Andy

 

[ICTWoody]

These started out as 846B's. I call them Valencia-19's now.

- Woody

 

[Tom Brennan]

Very cool, Woody, very cool.

 

[Nifty Niblick]

A late friend of mine made Electro-Voice Regencies that only look like Electro-Voice Regencies,
even including the Electro-Voice cosmetic badge and the furniture grade wood.

But inside, and in the back,
they more resemble a Fender 4 x 10 bass amp with a horn tweeter and home-brew crossover added.
He even put in quarter-inch phone plugs as the speaker connectors.

I always thought of them as Electro-Voice Regency MkIIs.
It's the thought that counts.