Pioneer PL-41 just... a... little... slow...

I have a PL-50. Looks identical but has auto return. Not sure about the motor and such. First check to see where the belt is riding on the capstan, It should be in the middle, if it is high or low, it will affect your speed. The capstan height can be adjusted it is kid of a pain though. If that is set right, your speed problem is most likely the belt. None of the current crop of belts seem to be the exact size and the speed shows it. The thickness of the belt is usually where the speed problem comes in. I have had good luck with belts for other tables from here
Turntable Basics. Tune Up Your Turntable With Our Supplies and Advice

He has 2 different 35.1's they are different widths. See how the thickness compares to what you have. IIRC, thicker would speed it up but check on that. As was mentioned, lots of info on AK about that. Might be worth a try.
Hello Try1256 and others, I am interested in spindle lubrication maintenance. It's a pretty obscure topic since it seems to be almost completely ignored around here. I can't understand why a series of searches with a variety of terms turns up so little on HiFiHaven about an important topic. I reached out to the Turntable Basics link you provide, but I think that site might not be maintained. No updates since something like 2016. Waiting on them. I've seen all there is to see on other forums, like vinylengine, Hoffman, Av and various sellers, but can't get this resolved and since you do write about it here, maybe you have some insight.

Technics DD SL-Q2 turntables require Panasonic/Technics spindle oil product number SFWO 010, that's SFWO (a letter "O")[space]010 (both are zeros) --so "SFWO 010" at the rate of "2 to 3 drops of oil once every 2000 hours of operation" all as per my SL-Q2 and I believe the 1200 series instructions, among others possibly.

Technics discontinued the product in either February 2013 9the most likely date) or possibly as late as 2018. Sellers are variable in their information. Sellers offer various alternatives generally prescribed as original or replacement and so forth. I think I saw a comment in your earlier post on this topic about using hydraulic oil. But hydraulic oil is not spindle oil. Others talk about Anderol 465 as a replacement but that is I believe, turbine oil. Turbine oil is not spindle bearing oil. Others use SAE engine oil, like Castro Edge. That also is not appropriate for sintered brass bearing application. Distilling all the info I could from other forums since HiFi Haven has not discussion about it yet, led me to the following set of specifications to meet the viscosity of the Technics' specified lubricant, i.e. ISO 168 (which may be SAE 20 viscosity--I've not personally verified that), along with the other specifications for this application:

Synthetic, non-detergent, compressor bearing type application, no emulsifying agents, non-hydraulic, non-turbine, non-engine, non-sewing machine, no filtering requirements in order to allow particles to settle out as they should in this application, non-thrust pad damaging, non-clogging additives to avoid clogging sintered brass bearings, used in at least the SL-Q2 and the 1200 series, which are porous.

KAB sells what they market as the equivalent of the source Technics used. But I question that. I can't quote their extensive language in detail here , but the owner says he reached out to Technics when they discontinued, and was given details about their lubricant. But there are a lot of undiscussed issues about that referral. No one outside of KAB knows for sure that a knowledgeable source at Technics specifically said "this is the source and the exact specs of the oil we supply with our turntables and recommend for maintenance." KAB has much to say on the subject, but I am not convinced. Japanese suppliers of what they describe as the remaining stock from Technics sell online, as do US and European re-sellers. But the gaps and inconsistencies are rife. They know less than the knowledgeable commenters on various other sites. I've taken to contacting lubricant manufacturers because I want the right lubricant, especially after reading the considerable amount of variation in lubricants on these spindle bearings which control much of what commenters here are discussing.

I'm hoping someone here with the amazing quality and investment in turntables on display will have an in-depth knowledge of where to go for the true original, NOS, supply of SFWO 010 or a correct replacement.
 
Hello Try1256 and others, I am interested in spindle lubrication maintenance. It's a pretty obscure topic since it seems to be almost completely ignored around here. I can't understand why a series of searches with a variety of terms turns up so little on HiFiHaven about an important topic. I reached out to the Turntable Basics link you provide, but I think that site might not be maintained. No updates since something like 2016. Waiting on them. I've seen all there is to see on other forums, like vinylengine, Hoffman, Av and various sellers, but can't get this resolved and since you do write about it here, maybe you have some insight.

Technics DD SL-Q2 turntables require Panasonic/Technics spindle oil product number SFWO 010, that's SFWO (a letter "O")[space]010 (both are zeros) --so "SFWO 010" at the rate of "2 to 3 drops of oil once every 2000 hours of operation" all as per my SL-Q2 and I believe the 1200 series instructions, among others possibly.

Technics discontinued the product in either February 2013 9the most likely date) or possibly as late as 2018. Sellers are variable in their information. Sellers offer various alternatives generally prescribed as original or replacement and so forth. I think I saw a comment in your earlier post on this topic about using hydraulic oil. But hydraulic oil is not spindle oil. Others talk about Anderol 465 as a replacement but that is I believe, turbine oil. Turbine oil is not spindle bearing oil. Others use SAE engine oil, like Castro Edge. That also is not appropriate for sintered brass bearing application. Distilling all the info I could from other forums since HiFi Haven has not discussion about it yet, led me to the following set of specifications to meet the viscosity of the Technics' specified lubricant, i.e. ISO 168 (which may be SAE 20 viscosity--I've not personally verified that), along with the other specifications for this application:

Synthetic, non-detergent, compressor bearing type application, no emulsifying agents, non-hydraulic, non-turbine, non-engine, non-sewing machine, no filtering requirements in order to allow particles to settle out as they should in this application, non-thrust pad damaging, non-clogging additives to avoid clogging sintered brass bearings, used in at least the SL-Q2 and the 1200 series, which are porous.

KAB sells what they market as the equivalent of the source Technics used. But I question that. I can't quote their extensive language in detail here , but the owner says he reached out to Technics when they discontinued, and was given details about their lubricant. But there are a lot of undiscussed issues about that referral. No one outside of KAB knows for sure that a knowledgeable source at Technics specifically said "this is the source and the exact specs of the oil we supply with our turntables and recommend for maintenance." KAB has much to say on the subject, but I am not convinced. Japanese suppliers of what they describe as the remaining stock from Technics sell online, as do US and European re-sellers. But the gaps and inconsistencies are rife. They know less than the knowledgeable commenters on various other sites. I've taken to contacting lubricant manufacturers because I want the right lubricant, especially after reading the considerable amount of variation in lubricants on these spindle bearings which control much of what commenters here are discussing.

I'm hoping someone here with the amazing quality and investment in turntables on display will have an in-depth knowledge of where to go for the true original, NOS, supply of SFWO 010 or a correct replacement.
I am sure that direct drive systems have a completely different lubrication requirement that the belt drive tables that I have had. I used singer sewing machine oil on my PL-50 spindle and it worked fine. What are they recommending for the current crop of Technics DD tables?
 
I am sure that direct drive systems have a completely different lubrication requirement that the belt drive tables that I have had. I used singer sewing machine oil on my PL-50 spindle and it worked fine. What are they recommending for the current crop of Technics DD tables?
Hi, thanks for wading through all that. Based on what I've learned on vinylengine.com/turntable_forum/viewtopic.php?f I would think the sewing machine oil idea is not so good. Many people use it and write about it, but oil lubricant engineers on the site recommend against it. Especially see "cafe latte" comments throughout that thread. He can explain it. Or "DutchFlea" or "Andy Beau". They went about 8 years discussing this precise topic of oil lubrication. Cafe Latte seems to have the deepest background IMO, recommends all the specs I listed in my first post. But does not confirm that the "official" way to go, with KABUSA.com oil is the way to go. They believe but haven't convinced me that the product Technics used until they discontinued production is the same as Anderol 465. "JJones3" posts show color is different (could be that the Technics oil is aged, the new image is lighter), viscosity appears different (one spreads out more than the other) photos are on his posts. Anderol is said to be a turbine oil, not the same specs called for as in TT spindle application. The posts there explain this stuff in detail.
 
Maybe the deck is the rare and highly collectible Bob & Ray Signature edtion.



(I'm sorry -- I couldn't stop myself from posting this drivel...)
 
I have always used AW32 hydraulic oil. It's used in all kinds of machinery, not just hydraulic systems to lubricate gears, ball bearings, plain bearings, sliding members and shafts and is also known as turbine oil. It's very highly refined, has anti wear, anti oxidants, can withstand high loads and is designed for applications just like a spindle bearing. It's about perfect in every way.
I work with industrial machinery everyday as a service tech, I see the insides of complex machines that are bathed in this stuff, it works. No need to drive yourself nuts. This lubrication thing was figured out eons ago.
But if you feel the need to chase after some special audiophile oil...........

BillWojo
 
I have always used AW32 hydraulic oil. It's used in all kinds of machinery, not just hydraulic systems to lubricate gears, ball bearings, plain bearings, sliding members and shafts and is also known as turbine oil. It's very highly refined, has anti wear, anti oxidants, can withstand high loads and is designed for applications just like a spindle bearing. It's about perfect in every way.
I work with industrial machinery everyday as a service tech, I see the insides of complex machines that are bathed in this stuff, it works. No need to drive yourself nuts. This lubrication thing was figured out eons ago.
But if you feel the need to chase after some special audiophile oil...........

BillWojo
My short answer is that every type of machine has its own characteristics, materials, performance standards, etc., and every brand and sometimes even different models of TT has different lubrication viscosity, etc. specs. Technics wants 2 to 3 drops every 2,000 hours. There is no pan and filter in their system, its open at the bottom. Their specified oil is selected for their conditions. Garrard differs from Dual, from Technics, from Thorens. I encourage you to check this link below for a more complete answer. The meat is in the long posts by Cafe Latte and some others. With your background, you'll recognize the knowledgeable ones and may enjoy critiquing them. The viscosity 32 you mention is not the right viscosity for Technics, at least not the SL-Q2 and later series, but it might be right for your brand. According to greater ears and minds than my own, proper spindle lubrication alone makes a distinctly audible difference (which I seek and which one author went into considerable detail to describe like he was dissecting a symphony orchestra after taking rather impressive rotation measurements before and after changing spindle oil) and produces less wear of course. Your post did cause me to double check a word I used in my main post, "brass" spindle. I double checked and see that both brass and bronze were used by different posters. One is likely wrong. So I'll check the Technics SL-Q2 manual on the link below. I'm also going to re-verify the ISO value of 168 recommended by repeated sources I was reading. They may have meant 68. 20 SAE was the corresponding viscosity, but your post has made me decide to re-verify both. Thanks for the push. Yes, chasing the right oil.

 
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