Thoughts of a Preamp Upgrade - Looking for Input

Tlarwa

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It’s that time of year again … when the weather here in WI starts to get cold I tend to spend a lot more time in my listening room. And that usually means I get the itch to try new equipment too.

I have been running the same Transcendent Sound Grounded Grid preamp for a number of years now. I built it myself, so it has sentimental value, but it also has a lot of upgrades; dual mono Goldpoint attenuators, Goldpoint selector, silver wire throughout, upgraded caps, custom faceplate, etc.. (see pics). I guess you could you can say I’m “ignorantly happy” with it, meaning I haven’t tried anything else in so long I don’t know if I‘m missing something or not by sticking with it. The rest of my system is as shown in my profile; Perry Marshall designed OB speakers that I painstakingly built as last last winter‘s project (active with miniDSP crossover, bi-amped), Odyssey Khartago Extreme SE SS amp powering the big 18” woofers and a NuForce STA200 amp powering the coaxials, Cambridge CXN v2 streamer/DAC, Tubes4HiFi PH 16 phone pre and a VPI Classic 1 w/ Soundsmith Zephyr Mk2 cartridge. This is the first time in a long while that my system is using SS amplification, but I wanted more “oomph” to drive those OBs, even though they are pretty efficient. I like the tube sound, so I’m thinking I’d stick with a tube preamp. I really don’t know what the sound signature differences are with different tubes in a pre … the GG uses 12au7s.

Assuming the rest of my system stands pat for now (the only other thing I’m considering is an upgraded outboard DAC, which would likely lead to a standalone streamer to replace the CXN). Any suggestions on preamps to try? I rarely buy anything new, and I’m open to building one too (have considered the Tubes4Hifi SP 14, but I’m not sure what’s going on there since the business was sold). Ideally it would have remote volume, but that’s not a deal breaker. Anyway, just looking for input as a starting point. Budget would probably be $1000-$1500 on the used market. The GG preamp would get sold to offset the cost (mine is a self-funded hobby, per the wife 😉).

Appreciate the discussion and thoughts, guys!
 

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There’s a very good looking PH16 for sale over on AK, kn nothing about it other than the ad….

Andy
 
I’m getting a Rogue Audio 99 Magnum with MM/MC phono stage to try out today, they have an excellent reputation, and comes with a volume control remote. Generally close to your budget.
Here’s an overview:
All tube mu-follower circuit topology
- Metal remote volume control
- Massive fully regulated high voltage supply
- Mono, mute, and record functions
- Separate power supply chassis
- Slow-start automated logical turn-on
- (4) 6SN7 tube complement line stage (comes with hand selected, vintage tubes from factory)
- gain selection control
- phono is 12AU7 12AT7 and 12AX7s depending on gain required up to 75dB


VR
Andy
 
It’s that time of year again … when the weather here in WI starts to get cold I tend to spend a lot more time in my listening room. And that usually means I get the itch to try new equipment too.

I have been running the same Transcendent Sound Grounded Grid preamp for a number of years now. I built it myself, so it has sentimental value, but it also has a lot of upgrades; dual mono Goldpoint attenuators, Goldpoint selector, silver wire throughout, upgraded caps, custom faceplate, etc.. (see pics). I guess you could you can say I’m “ignorantly happy” with it, meaning I haven’t tried anything else in so long I don’t know if I‘m missing something or not by sticking with it. The rest of my system is as shown in my profile; Perry Marshall designed OB speakers that I painstakingly built as last last winter‘s project (active with miniDSP crossover, bi-amped), Odyssey Khartago Extreme SE SS amp powering the big 18” woofers and a NuForce STA200 amp powering the coaxials, Cambridge CXN v2 streamer/DAC, Tubes4HiFi PH 16 phone pre and a VPI Classic 1 w/ Soundsmith Zephyr Mk2 cartridge. This is the first time in a long while that my system is using SS amplification, but I wanted more “oomph” to drive those OBs, even though they are pretty efficient. I like the tube sound, so I’m thinking I’d stick with a tube preamp. I really don’t know what the sound signature differences are with different tubes in a pre … the GG uses 12au7s.

Assuming the rest of my system stands pat for now (the only other thing I’m considering is an upgraded outboard DAC, which would likely lead to a standalone streamer to replace the CXN). Any suggestions on preamps to try? I rarely buy anything new, and I’m open to building one too (have considered the Tubes4Hifi SP 14, but I’m not sure what’s going on there since the business was sold). Ideally it would have remote volume, but that’s not a deal breaker. Anyway, just looking for input as a starting point. Budget would probably be $1000-$1500 on the used market. The GG preamp would get sold to offset the cost (mine is a self-funded hobby, per the wife 😉).

Appreciate the discussion and thoughts, guys!
I have no advice but, I do enjoy seeing you post photos of your unique and beautiful set up. Nipper is a  huge plus, in my book.😊
 
I have no advice but, I do enjoy seeing you post photos of your unique and beautiful set up. Nipper is a  huge plus, in my book.😊
Thanks for the system compliment. It’s much appreciated. And I love Nipper as well … it was a Xmas present from my wife. I’ve been looking for an original forever, but they don’t show up very often!
 
First of all, I don't think there are any issues at Tube4HiFi, as far as I've heard, but maybe someone else with recent experience can chime in. But I think the transition was pretty smooth. Anyway, I love my SP14-style Aikido preamp--I did a scratch build just for fun, but I've also had an SP14 here for upgrades for a friend. It was that preamp that really got me going on the Aikido circuit, and my friend absolutely loves his. I haven't heard the grounded-grid preamp. I know it has a good reputation so maybe the move would be sideways, but an octal Aikido is, for my money, pretty hard to beat for sheer musical enjoyment.
 
First of all, I don't think there are any issues at Tube4HiFi, as far as I've heard, but maybe someone else with recent experience can chime in. But I think the transition was pretty smooth. Anyway, I love my SP14-style Aikido preamp--I did a scratch build just for fun, but I've also had an SP14 here for upgrades for a friend. It was that preamp that really got me going on the Aikido circuit, and my friend absolutely loves his. I haven't heard the grounded-grid preamp. I know it has a good reputation so maybe the move would be sideways, but an octal Aikido is, for my money, pretty hard to beat for sheer musical enjoyment.
Thanks for the input. I don’t know if there are any issue there either, I just know it is/was in transition, which is something to be aware of. The SP 14 has been on my radar to build for a while.
 
I had a Modwright pre like this one and it was very good.
Sometimes I wish I had kept it.
Took me several dyi attempts to better it.
Thanks. i have no experience with Modwright, other than knowing the brand has a great rep. I’ll check it out.
 
I also use a GG pre I built over 20 years ago. Gold point attenuator with PRP resistors, Takman carbon films on the board and VCAP Odam output. It's dead quiet with neutral tonality . I've used it with both SS and tube amps. I've had the opportunity to rotate in others costing more and kept going back to the GG. I'll never sell it, however I have contemplated trying one of Broskie's Akido line stage or the SP 14. Just not there yet.
 
I’ve built a couple of the ErhardAudio top shelf Akido dual transformer versions in a Dynaco PAS body, they were very pleasing preamps…..
 
Appreciate the discussion and thoughts, guys!

I've had my GG for only about 15 years :) When I got curious to see what was out there since 15 years, I experimented with some of the cheap but well reviewed chinese preamps and dac/pre/headphone amp, such as FIIO and Topping. It is fun to have something to compare - and you always get at least 30 day trial.
Having said that, if I wanted to find something new that I would expect to be happy with for the next 15 years, well, Bruce has a few new preamp designs, one 300B, one with variable gain, etc.
If I were seriously looking to go another 15 years with a new unit, , that would be the way. Problem is of course you can't get a 30 day trial with a kit!
For that I have no solution.
 
I also use a GG pre I built over 20 years ago. Gold point attenuator with PRP resistors, Takman carbon films on the board and VCAP Odam output. It's dead quiet with neutral tonality . I've used it with both SS and tube amps. I've had the opportunity to rotate in others costing more and kept going back to the GG. I'll never sell it, however I have contemplated trying one of Broskie's Akido line stage or the SP 14. Just not there yet.
That is good info, coming from someone who is also familiar with the GG. I am thinking the same thing … I really like my GG, but if I did try something new it would likely be an SP 14 build, probably with similar upgrades. I think I’d build the remote version with the Khozmo attenuator/remote. I had a Khozmo passive pre some years back and it was a really nice piece.
 
Paul, what do you prefer for a modern line stage?
The problem with the 12AX7 is that as a voltage amplifier, it has a ridiculous amount of gain. Nobody needs 30+dB of gain in their tube linestage, and having that results in people complaining about how they can only turn up the volume knob on their preamp 5 degrees before it's ear bleedingly loud. As a cathode follower, the 12AX7 can only run a scant amount of current, so if you load it down it will really struggle to operate well. This is why the Triode Corp. preamp uses a 12AX7 in parallel for their cathode follower, but quite literally any of the other common dual triodes is a better choice for cathode follower duty. If you find a preamp with 12AX7s and low gain, it may just be that it's a copy of a vintage design using global feedback, and these are not the greatest sounding circuits either.

I personally prefer a directly heated triode gain stage with an indirectly heated cathode follower buffer. I've had good results from single gain stage tube preamps, both with and without output transformers as well. I think the recommendation of the Aikido circuit is a good one, as that is well developed and well documented, but I would stick with the lower mu higher gm dual triodes in that circuit.
 
I’m more impressed with the Rogue Audio 99 Magnum than expected….figured the line stage would be fantastic but so is the phono stage :cool: Admittedly it‘s full of some very expensive vintage tube, and costly capacitors but man it’s just sublime…

Build quality is excellent, it weighs in excess of 30lbs
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VR
Andy
 
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