DIY Woody's Altec 6041-ish idea...

[ICTWoody]

My experience in trying to get good dynamic bass that reaches down to 30s, AND a seamless mix with a 604-8g.

Forget about squeezing deep bass out of 604s, they are great, maybe even the best at some things (imho ), but deep bass isn't one of them. I like the G version best in a wide baffle cabinet that gets the driver center up at ear height, 9cu ft, 40hz tuning. Gets you down to the low 40s and does everything else well, really well.

For low bass, I have found a nice path to be a large, efficient driver controlled by DSP crossover/EQ with lots of flexibility to work out that all important transition, and deal with things like cabinet size, room location compromises, etc.

And that seamless blend with the 604? Use a large, fast, efficient woofer that can match the tone, speed and flavor of the 604, like an Altec 416. I've messed with rolling off the 604 behind a passive or active crossover but I didn't care for this, seemed to kill (to varying degrees) the mojo the 604 on SET has. I like a system like this best with the main speakers running full range while vary carefully filling in the bottom with the super flexible DSP controlled woofers, maybe even on a good SS amp.

I suppose you could do all this nicely in 1 cabinet; I'd compromise on the volume of the 604 box but not the baffle width and driver height. You could even make the 416 portion a little smaller as DSP can do amazing things with a woofer. I'd start with the baffle layout, build in the angle you talk of, then try some different volumes for the 2 sections with software like winisd, focusing on getting a smooth response out of 604 first. CAD is an amazing tool for this, use heavily.

Use a Markwart crossover on the 604, run it full range, DSP and tune the low bass section until you don't even notice it's there.

All just my take of course, but it worked for me; I'm done looking for speakers.

I think you're getting what I am saying. I worry about the ability to mess with the Markwart network, which is tried and true, trying to passively work in the 416. I REALLY would like to go passive with all the networks for Altec purist reasons... even though I have plenty of MiniDSP representation at my place currently... including these babies I built up using the MiniDSP PWR-ICE250's I bought from @Pat McGinty.



A custom 9cu/ft box, tuned to 40hz, made for my room with separate (dual) 416 based LF section could be the ticket. My only concern in MY room is space for the 416 based sub bass unit...

- Woody

 

[EarlK]

Here's a quote from an ex-Altec systems designer ( that I saved from an eBay auction of his many years back ).

This is how Altec achieved decent bass response using the smaller box volumes you see ( in that series of Japanese-only products ).

The 9862 studio monitor speaker system was produced in the early eighties for sale exclusively to the Japanese market.
It was a four way system using the 950-8A ring radiator tweeter, a 902 type driver on a special horn for the upper midrange,
a 414 twelve inch driver for the lower midrange, and a subwoofer using a specially designed 416.
The number of units built was very limited.

The 416 woofer used all standard parts except for the cone, which was about 25 grams heavier than the stock cone.
This allowed the driver to have the same low frequency performance as a standard 416, but in a much smaller enclosure with a sacrifice of about 3 dB in efficiency.
A standard 416-8B/C in a nine cubic foot vented enclosure tuned around 40 Hertz has an F3 of about 40 Hertz with minimal ripple.
A 416 built with the "heavy" 35239 cone has the same 40 Hertz F3 in a five cubic foot vented enclosure tuned to 30 Hertz.

For those wanting to retain the excellent mid and upper range behavior of the standard 416,
but with 40 Hertz performance in a much smaller enclosure, a 416 built with the 35239 cone is the answer.
These cones are original factory parts and are over thirty years old.

I was the Senior Design Engineer of Acoustics for Altec Lansing in the 1980's at the Oklahoma City facility
and these cones are from my personal collection.

This auction is for one pair of cones.

Westrex added cone weight in a different way ( for a higher mms value ) onto their licence built 515s ( 2080E ) for british HiFi .



More than a decade & a half later, JBL would copy this approach ( but would hide their 35 gram mass ring under the dust-cap of their 2231/2235 woofers ) .

 

[Salectric]

And we have the answer! Thanks @EarlK.

 

[MrEd]

That's great info @EarlK 🤗

 

[Drugolf]

Well that a cool tid bit of info for sure. Are heavier cones available at all now? I dont suppose one could make their comes a little heavier somehow?

 

[MrEd]

Well that a cool tid bit of info for sure. Are heavier cones available at all now? I dont suppose one could make their comes a little heavier somehow?

There are a few posts on DIYAudio about adding weight.
You might do a search.

 

[rogerfederer]

There are a few posts on DIYAudio about adding weight.
You might do a search.

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[doglv]

My experience in trying to get good dynamic bass that reaches down to 30s, AND a seamless mix with a 604-8g.

Forget about squeezing deep bass out of 604s, they are great, maybe even the best at some things (imho ), but deep bass isn't one of them. I like the G version best in a wide baffle cabinet that gets the driver center up at ear height, 9cu ft, 40hz tuning. Gets you down to the low 40s and does everything else well, really well.

For low bass, I have found a nice path to be a large, efficient driver controlled by DSP crossover/EQ with lots of flexibility to work out that all important transition, and deal with things like cabinet size, room location compromises, etc.

And that seamless blend with the 604? Use a large, fast, efficient woofer that can match the tone, speed and flavor of the 604, like an Altec 416. I've messed with rolling off the 604 behind a passive or active crossover but I didn't care for this, seemed to kill (to varying degrees) the mojo the 604 on SET has. I like a system like this best with the main speakers running full range while vary carefully filling in the bottom with the super flexible DSP controlled woofers, maybe even on a good SS amp.

I suppose you could do all this nicely in 1 cabinet; I'd compromise on the volume of the 604 box but not the baffle width and driver height. You could even make the 416 portion a little smaller as DSP can do amazing things with a woofer. I'd start with the baffle layout, build in the angle you talk of, then try some different volumes for the 2 sections with software like winisd, focusing on getting a smooth response out of 604 first. CAD is an amazing tool for this, use heavily.

Use a Markwart crossover on the 604, run it full range, DSP and tune the low bass section until you don't even notice it's there.

All just my take of course, but it worked for me; I'm done looking for speakers.

This is pretty much is what I do as well but with different drivers and implementation.

I am experimenting with PLLXO's (Passive Line Level XO). Jury is still out but it's easy and cheap. They have actually exceeded my expectaions as I thought there would be some level loss or SQ loss but I that hasn't happened... At least at a level I've picked up yet.

 

[MrEd]

This is pretty much is what I do as well but with different drivers and implementation.

I am experimenting with PLLXO's (Passive Line Level XO). Jury is still out but it's easy and cheap. They have actually exceeded my expectaions as I thought there would be some level loss or SQ loss but I that hasn't happened... At least at a level I've picked up yet.

I have been wanting to try pllxo also.
Any advice?

 

[doglv]

I have been wanting to try pllxo also.
Any advice?

Start with cheapo caps. Just do it and report back as I'm very curious to others opinion here at the Haven.

These are very popular with the Magnapan crowd but not too much attention from the Altecers.

Do you have two outs on your preamp or are you splitting the signal?

Below is one with a couple of different values which correspond to 80Hz and 100Hz (I think).

 

[MrEd]

I do have a pair of out puts on my pree.
I wll give whirl and let you know.

 

[doglv]

I do have a pair of out puts on my pree.
I wll give whirl and let you know.

OK. Cool.

Maybe start another thread to discuss further.

 

[doglv]

I've always thought it would be cool to use the "concentric" tweeter as the top end of a three way from say, 6KHz and up.

But, I think I'm the only who thought that as I've never seen that configuration until I saw this old Pioneer on Ebay last week:

 

[Vin-Tone]

Why stop with only a single 416… my friend recently finished these open baffles and sold all of his other speakers! He used a pair of 416s and 604-8g with active crossovers. View attachment 50846
View attachment 50845View attachment 50847

Would it be correct to assume these are just baffles? No Backs?

 

[monad]

previous owner rehomed pair of UREI 813.. to similar effect.. 1" honduran mahogany.. 250+ lbs each..