Harbeth P3ESR Vs. ProAc Tablette 10 Vs. The World
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Richard Austen
Junior Member
I have not heard the Omegas but a good single driver have their strengths and one of them is cohesiveness and articulation in the midrange. That should beat the AX Two. They should also be easier to driving making flea watt amps a real viable option - like 2 watters. Depending which Alnico speaker it is - it may also have reasonable bass.
What they often lack is dynamics and frequency extremes and so they tend to suffer on rock but are real strengths on acoustic music. Generally i like good single drivers but I generally hear a lot more expensive ones so my comparisons are more like Teresonic at $5,000 versus the Audio Note J at $5,000 and because I listen to a wide array of music the AN J is the easy choice.
BUT at $1k comparing a much less bass strong AX Two it should be a lot closer. I suspect if you listen to a more rock or bassier music - the AX Two will be better - but with spatial music like opera or violin - the Omega may better. Then again with out hearing the Omega it's tough to say. Too bad you can't bring them both in and send the one you like least back.
Richard Austen
Junior Member
Right Now Audio Note is doing well having opened a third plant BUT they are in a state of limbo with production because of Brexit as their speaker plants are in Denmark, Austria and Lithuania as well as the UK where their main plant is. I am guessing that until Brexit is resolved they are focusing on their made to order higher end lines. Plus they came out with a computer Sound card in conjunction with EVGA and got swamped with 2000 orders in a single day.
The AX Two has been selling since 2001 so it's not a terribly new speaker - I suspect most people buying AN buy the AN E because the brand generally is aimed at bigger spenders. So they may have got swamped a little on their level zero. They simply make too many products IMO clocking in at over 700 products and this is still not a big company with around 50 employees or something.
I actually wish AN Kits would pick up the zero series speakers because they probably don't need to rely on the sophisticated computer matching the K/J/E get. Plus they could probably offer the kit at $450 making them a screamer of a deal.
The AX One is actually a direct duplicate of a Rogers speaker I believe. Not the LS-3/5a I just can't remember the model.
The AX Two has been selling since 2001 so it's not a terribly new speaker - I suspect most people buying AN buy the AN E because the brand generally is aimed at bigger spenders. So they may have got swamped a little on their level zero. They simply make too many products IMO clocking in at over 700 products and this is still not a big company with around 50 employees or something.
I actually wish AN Kits would pick up the zero series speakers because they probably don't need to rely on the sophisticated computer matching the K/J/E get. Plus they could probably offer the kit at $450 making them a screamer of a deal.
The AX One is actually a direct duplicate of a Rogers speaker I believe. Not the LS-3/5a I just can't remember the model.
Richard Austen
Junior Member
I found it - The Audio Note AX One is merely an upgraded Rogers LS1
The fit and finish on what photos I could find of the Audio Note AX-twos has dampened my desire for them. As does coming across nonsense like this:
"The pedestrian looks of the Audio Note loudspeakers are well calculated. The front baffle dimensions and depth of the cabinet are an integral part of the wave launch support and controlled defraction characteristics pioneered by Peter Snell in the 1970's. Smaller, narrow baffles, like those found in most of today's "fashion victim" designs currently masquerading as quality loudspeakers achieve nothing other than to compromise midrange frequency and tonal colourations."
I write advertising copy for a living. Good job turning your money-saving into a tribalist have-to-have.
Onward. I think I'll save for the fashion victim P3esrs.
"The pedestrian looks of the Audio Note loudspeakers are well calculated. The front baffle dimensions and depth of the cabinet are an integral part of the wave launch support and controlled defraction characteristics pioneered by Peter Snell in the 1970's. Smaller, narrow baffles, like those found in most of today's "fashion victim" designs currently masquerading as quality loudspeakers achieve nothing other than to compromise midrange frequency and tonal colourations."
I write advertising copy for a living. Good job turning your money-saving into a tribalist have-to-have.
Onward. I think I'll save for the fashion victim P3esrs.
Yeah, I moved up from Compact 7es3s. I had the es3s and currently have the Super HL-5s. The only reason I didn't keep the 7es3s, besides the trade-in deal I got on the larger Harbeths, was that the beautiful rosewood finish on them just didn't match anything around here. Everything here is cherry, teak and walnut. They just stuck out, despite being absolutely beautiful speakers. The quality of the veneer and the satin finish was incredible. And they smelled nice, too.
I've listened to both the Spendor S3/5 and P3esrs, though not back to back. I'd love to make a head to head comparison with them. I didn't love the P3esr in a main-system context, they're just too limited in scale by their size. But I think they'd make perfect desktop speakers/monitors...the only thing holding me back is their resale value, which is high. That suggests, though, that I could get most of what I have in them back if I find a nice used pair.
The fit and finish of those AX-Ones is pretty poor, honestly. The AX-Two fit and finish from what I've seen is a bit better; no visible gaps in the 45'ed angle construction though still thin walled chip board and vinyl wrap. Nothing wrong with thin wall OR chip board though, but at the last price-increase for the AX-Two I think they were asking $1275 or something to that order and, well, no matter WHO you are as a speaker company at that price you need to offer at the very minimum level 1 basic real wood veneers. Do they sound good enough to look past this? Maybe...
The choice came down to me having past working experience with Louis' product and the value attached to working with such a nice guy that offers exceptionally appealing speakers in the visual plane. I plan on starting a separate thread here soon detailing this purchase as to not get side-tracked.
Worth noting, I believe Louis still offers a 30 day money back guarantee. So if his product doesn't work out, I'll be right back in this thread and on with the hunt. My current lineup for if the SAMs don't work out is below.
1. Spendor S3/5R2 (if I can even find some) (dealer in Canada posted earlier in this thread doesn't take online payment via PayPal)
2. Harbeth P3ESR (40th Anni.)
3. Tablette 10 or 10 Signature May have to mail order. Nearest dealer is in Dallas, roughly 275 miles from me.
The choice came down to me having past working experience with Louis' product and the value attached to working with such a nice guy that offers exceptionally appealing speakers in the visual plane. I plan on starting a separate thread here soon detailing this purchase as to not get side-tracked.
Worth noting, I believe Louis still offers a 30 day money back guarantee. So if his product doesn't work out, I'll be right back in this thread and on with the hunt. My current lineup for if the SAMs don't work out is below.
1. Spendor S3/5R2 (if I can even find some) (dealer in Canada posted earlier in this thread doesn't take online payment via PayPal)
2. Harbeth P3ESR (40th Anni.)
3. Tablette 10 or 10 Signature May have to mail order. Nearest dealer is in Dallas, roughly 275 miles from me.
Curveball time: just when things are getting focused here's a bookshelf that I've actually heard, and it has a lovely midrange. Not a 3/5 variant however.
Davis Acoustics Olympia One. They're a French manufacturer. No idea if they have a presence in the US though.
Davis Acoustics Olympia One. They're a French manufacturer. No idea if they have a presence in the US though.
I've always been curious about PMC monitors, somewhere years ago I had seen references to them being not too dissimilar to ProAcs, though I've never had the opportunity to actually hear them.
This 2009 Stereophile review lists the DB1 more expensive than it is now (current version is $1,750):
www.stereophile.com
Acoustic Sounds used to carry them but apparently no more, and they list just 3 U.S. dealers: New York, Nashville, and Los Angeles.
Transmission line bass design is the source of my curiosity. They also have a professional line including actives, and passives.
This 2009 Stereophile review lists the DB1 more expensive than it is now (current version is $1,750):
PMC DB1i loudspeaker
The British speaker manufacturer PMC Ltd. has built a professional client list seemingly as extensive as its almost mind-numbingly broad line of speakers. The i series alone includes 12 models, one of which is the DB1i ($1929/pair).
www.stereophile.com
Acoustic Sounds used to carry them but apparently no more, and they list just 3 U.S. dealers: New York, Nashville, and Los Angeles.
Transmission line bass design is the source of my curiosity. They also have a professional line including actives, and passives.
2019 Editors' Choice Awards: Desktop Loudspeakers - The Absolute Sound
2019 Editors' Choice Awards: Desktop Loudspeakers -
www.theabsolutesound.com
Richard Austen
Junior Member
Well there is the list price and what you can actually get them for. The speakers have been around since 2001 and these are the two from several years ago
They did have a Signature version in Russian Birch but IMO it actually didn't sound as good as the cheaper uglier chipboard version - it had some strengths but overall some life was lost. But as you can see they look a lot better.
Plus the problem is that the price creeps up to the $1300US range and the AN K/D which is a lot better is something like $1,800.
Richard Austen
Junior Member
Yeah - I was fortunate to listen to the products before I read Peter Qvortrup's rather strong opinions of audio products - as he was a major importer and retailer for many many brands for decades. One of those brands was Peter Snell's original speakers. I can't really say I disagree with him in the sense that I have yet to hear a narrow baffle slim speaker with multiple woofers that beat the wide baffle AN's or for that matter wide baffles from Trenner and Freidl, Harbeth, Volti, Tannoy etc. These speakers tend to mop the floor with narrow speakers from Totem, Magico, Wilson Benesch, Paradigm, PSB, Polk, B&W etc.
Or at the very least the two schools are different to the extent that I can easily see why those who favour wide baffles view the alternate to be rubbish.
The same thing was echoed by a Boston Acoustics dealer who was at Soundhounds (my dealer in Victoria) who noted that the AN E sounded better than any BA speaker he was representing. I asked him why not have Boston Acoustics make a version of the speaker (as BA owned Snell and thus own the rights to the Snell speakers as well).
His reply was "That look won't sell." Peter Qvortrup was asked by B&W a similar thing - how do you get that bass from just an 8. But again - in order to get it B&W would have to change their pretty looking loudspeakers into dumpy looking loudspeakers. Again that look won't sell. A niche market might buy in to the likes of AN, Harbeth, Volti, Tannoy, Pure Audio Project but if you want to sell in massive numbers you better have GQ inspired stuff like Sonus Faber sleek and B&W curves.
The LOOK (Fashion) comes FIRST. Then they shoehorn sound out of them - they try and get the best sound they can but it is marketed "looks" first with the likes of B&W/Sonus Faber/Totem etc. Lifestyle - like Bose but better and for deeper pockets.
Granted I don't find the AN K/Lx to be ugly - and you can at least order them in over 20 finish options matte or high gloss (and now in all the RAAL colour schemes) The AN K/Lx sounds quite good. I would run it up against what I heard from the Harbeth HL5+ or ATC SCM 19 and top of the line B&W N805 ($6500US) any day. Given the AN K/Lx can be had for around 2,200 US it looks like a pretty good deal to me.
What I have learned over the years is that I want my women slim and sexy, but I want my speakers fat and ugly.
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Lest anybody be confused, THIS is the speaker I was referring to. The Audio Note AX-two which was referenced in this discussion. Here, in white ash, a speaker that was last available for around $1300USD. It looks like a $200 kit speaker.
And I'm not against wide baffles. I am against the absurd suggestion that anybody who doesn't employ one is doing so only for aesthetic reasons. And the entire premise that when one company is doing something different than nearly every other manufacturer on the planet, that they have discovered or are employing something only they know about. There are plenty of reasons not to use a wide baffle beyond looks, just as there are some reasons one would want to employ one if that's there particularly approach.
This speakers in the post above, the AN-K/lx, look like a much better proposition. I think they look nice, and have a great simplicity about them.
And I'm not against wide baffles. I am against the absurd suggestion that anybody who doesn't employ one is doing so only for aesthetic reasons. And the entire premise that when one company is doing something different than nearly every other manufacturer on the planet, that they have discovered or are employing something only they know about. There are plenty of reasons not to use a wide baffle beyond looks, just as there are some reasons one would want to employ one if that's there particularly approach.
This speakers in the post above, the AN-K/lx, look like a much better proposition. I think they look nice, and have a great simplicity about them.
And then you start getting into a used Harbeth Monitor 30.2. Which, though bigger than what I was looking for here, is simply, in my opinion, a world class speaker regardless of price. And perhaps the AN-K/lx is as well, I haven't heard them. I admit to the whole attitude around Audio Note, that I seem to forget until I get interested in them again and start reading, is a huge turnoff to me. And I say that as a Harbeth owner... another brand which has a set of unfortunately rabid, our way or no way, fans. I get enough of toxic tribalism in daily life, I can only take so much of it in my hobbies.
I wish I had better access to a Proac dealer. I'd love to compare the Tablet 10 to the Tablet 10 Signature, as they seem to be quite different. Proac says it has a more forward midrange (the signature) with a more pronounced soundstage... which I would love.
