No, I'm not going to the record fair.

JohnVF

JohnVF

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There's something called the "Chirp Record Fair" in Chicago this weekend. A few friends have asked if I'm going, as they know I'm like 'the record guy' in the friends circle. And...nope. Not going anywhere near it.

Honestly, I think I've had it. The LP market has become absolutely absurd. First it was nothing-special repressings all being $30 and up. Then the used market caught up. Then it ..surpassed. And then it.... just became ridiculous. Absolutely ridiculous.

The other day I noticed, on the wall of a record store, a promo-copy of John Cale's Paris 1919 priced at $300. I bought this record for $5 in the late '90s, same promo-sticker. It's nothing special. The cheaper repress from the 00's sounds just as good.

Two days ago I saw a post about the record below in a facebook group, and everybody drooling. But...wait.. I have that record. What's so special about it? I paid $10 for it a few years after it came out. I mean, yeah, its the last listenable Morrissey album and I guess they didn't press that many of them, but you know it'll be repressed someday, so, like, chill out. I should probably sell mine while the gettin's hot but I just can't feel comfortable doing that to some desperate Morrissey fan who's, of course, already depressed.

Anyway, just me complaining but like most things out there today IT'S JUST GOTTEN SO DUMB that I want to scream. And, not wanting to look silly screaming, I'll just say no. I'm not going to the record fair.

Screenshot 2023-10-18 at 10.29.47 AM.pngunnamed.pngunnamed.jpg<< my copy. There's a few cheaper ones but they seem to hover around an average of $300. That used to be what people would want for one-of-a-kind misprints and "hot stampers", first off the press. Now...its just some average Morrissey record from just past the edge of his prime. Stupid.
 
I know we've discussed this endlessly over the years, but I stayed in Vinyl because it was inexpensive and fun. The gear was cashy but the records were fun. Spend a couple bucks, get something you don't like and take it back to the thrift store from where it came.

In a way I guess it's not a bad thing because it keeps me from buying stuff I don't really "want" but yeah there's little chance I will be dropping $30+ on an LP. It's not that I can't, it's that I won't.

CD's are priced below what I ever saw records at nowadays used, I'm getting some of my jollies there even if I could just go home and stream it.
 
240sx4u said:
I know we've discussed this endlessly over the years, but I stayed in Vinyl because it was inexpensive and fun. The gear was cashy but the records were fun. Spend a couple bucks, get something you don't like and take it back to the thrift store from where it came.

In a way I guess it's not a bad thing because it keeps me from buying stuff I don't really "want" but yeah there's little chance I will be dropping $30+ on an LP. It's not that I can't, it's that I won't.

CD's are priced below what I ever saw records at nowadays used, I'm getting some of my jollies there even if I could just go home and stream it.
Click to expand...
I tried getting the same jollies off of CDs, to the point of even buying two classic CD-players but... I just don't really like how they sound. Which kinda bums me out. Maybe its the CD players? I don't like how vintage speakers or electronics sound, why should the players be any different?
 
JohnVF said:
Honestly, I think I've had it. The LP market has become absolutely absurd.
Click to expand...
Sometimes I feel like I’m getting a bargain at $20 for a Near Mint copy of ANYTHING. The new pressings and reissues….Fuggetaboutits!
 
I think the most I ever spent on a record was $90 and immediately afterwords I was wondering why I did so.

What is driving me out of it is the high prices for things that aren't special. Yes, sure, let the market determine what is special but... sorry, I don't trust the market anymore. There's such a degree of hipster trendiness around it that nothing is worth what its being priced at these days. I'm sorry but $400-$600 for a Morrissey solo album that isn't a remarkable pressing and that (don't tell them) will be re-pressed in the near future? It's just DUMB. The intelligent buyers have left the building and people imagining rarity where there is none have been suckered into paying whatever they'll pay. And they've agreed to pay a silly amount. Until they catch wind of another pastime to ruin, I mean, get into, I need to do something else.

I'm not even looking for the glory-days of 1990-2005 when everybody dumped their records in favor of perfect sound forever. I just want sanity.
 
JohnVF said:
I tried getting the same jollies off of CDs, to the point of even buying two classic CD-players but... I just don't really like how they sound. Which kinda bums me out. Maybe its the CD players? I don't like how vintage speakers or electronics sound, why should the players be any different?
Click to expand...

I have the same experience here, but I don't do much critical listening at all anymore. My office system gets all the action nowadays and it's fairly pedestrian but nice.

I have that sony ES player and as much as I like using it, I'm under no pretenses that it's going to be better than good modern digital or my vinyl rig (which has factors of 10 more money in it). I just enjoy it for what it is.

This does bring up a totally OT thought of mine that I know we have talked about - I'd love to try out one of the $$$$ streamer setups to see what I am missing. Pitting 1500 dollar digital front ends against a vinyl front end that has factors more tied up in it really isn't a fair fight.
 
240sx4u said:
I have the same experience here, but I don't do much critical listening at all anymore. My office system gets all the action nowadays and it's fairly pedestrian but nice.

I have that sony ES player and as much as I like using it, I'm under no pretenses that it's going to be better than good modern digital or my vinyl rig (which has factors of 10 more money in it). I just enjoy it for what it is.

This does bring up a totally OT thought of mine that I know we have talked about - I'd love to try out one of the $$$$ streamer setups to see what I am missing. Pitting 1500 dollar digital front ends against a vinyl front end that has factors more tied up in it really isn't a fair fight.
Click to expand...
I've auditioned a $10,000 streaming setup and it did, indeed, sound very nice but I don't know that it sounded any better than my Wiim Pro + Topping D70, which also sounds very nice. And the Wiim/Topping sounds WAY better than my two ancient TOTL R2R-DAC CD Players.

I don't know why I'm surprised that my R2R players are falling short. This has happened to me literally every time I've listened to the "old stuff is way better than new stuff" camp. Yet I keep doing it as I want it to be true. But its not.
 
JohnVF said:
There's something called the "Chirp Record Fair" in Chicago this weekend. A few friends have asked if I'm going, as they know I'm like 'the record guy' in the friends circle. And...nope. Not going anywhere near it.

Honestly, I think I've had it. The LP market has become absolutely absurd. First it was nothing-special repressings all being $30 and up. Then the used market caught up. Then it ..surpassed. And then it.... just became ridiculous. Absolutely ridiculous.

The other day I noticed, on the wall of a record store, a promo-copy of John Cale's Paris 1919 priced at $300. I bought this record for $5 in the late '90s, same promo-sticker. It's nothing special. The cheaper repress from the 00's sounds just as good.

Two days ago I saw a post about the record below in a facebook group, and everybody drooling. But...wait.. I have that record. What's so special about it? I paid $10 for it a few years after it came out. I mean, yeah, its the last listenable Morrissey album and I guess they didn't press that many of them, but you know it'll be repressed someday, so, like, chill out. I should probably sell mine while the gettin's hot but I just can't feel comfortable doing that to some desperate Morrissey fan who's, of course, already depressed.

Anyway, just me complaining but like most things out there today IT'S JUST GOTTEN SO DUMB that I want to scream. And, not wanting to look silly screaming, I'll just say no. I'm not going to the record fair.

View attachment 68704View attachment 68705View attachment 68706<< my copy. There's a few cheaper ones but they seem to hover around an average of $300. That used to be what people would want for one-of-a-kind misprints and "hot stampers", first off the press. Now...its just some average Morrissey record from just past the edge of his prime. Stupid.
Click to expand...
Morrissey fan who’s already depressed 🤣🤣🤣
 
Maybe I am living under a rock (a case could be made) but just because people are asking stupid money for questionable records, does that mean that all records at this fair will be $300? Or $100 or even 50? I gotta think a large scale fair like this might still have some decent 10 and 20 dollar titles.

Am I way off base ?

Personally I am only adding a few new ones a year now and only after I have thoroughly listened to them on streaming.
 
jblnut said:
Maybe I am living under a rock (a case could be made) but just because people are asking stupid money for questionable records, does that mean that all records at this fair will be $300? Or $100 or even 50? I gotta think a large scale fair like this might still have some decent 10 and 20 dollar titles.

Am I way off base ?

Personally I am only adding a few new ones a year now and only after I have thoroughly listened to them on streaming.
Click to expand...
You're not totally off base. The record stores here have gotten crazy with their prices, but I got to a flea market or 'vintage market' nearly every weekend and there's always records. But they're not $1-$5 anymore, they're almost always $10 here for anything, even Whipped Cream and Other Delights. And it just goes up from there.

I just don't want to spend a saturday morning digging through 10,000 records for the one bargain. It's not fun to me anymore.
 
I have relegated my vinyl buying to bop(ish) era Jazz and classic American Songbook pop only. Occasionally, I will buy a used Blues album as those are still relatively cheap around here. Everything else is CD or Streaming. I also recently started buying music directly from artists who are mostly independent. Easier to justify the cost when it is going directly to the artists.

As to cd players, I am afraid that there is certainly a gulf between good and bad players. Also, maintenance becomes a factor when you are dealing with some of the older noveu vintage cd players now. They are tired and in need of some love and they will sound every bit of that until rectified.
 
Caveat in regards to my Reel tapes. Those things defy reason and logic as to the cost. Those are also now Jazz only, for the most part.
 
I mean, seriously--Thriller sold, what, 45 million or more copies...and bog standard vinyl copies in playable condition now cost way too much and, when it became such a smash, there were millions of bad-sounding records being stamped on worn metal parts just to keep up with demand. This should be a dollar bin record at best. Instead? NM copies are probably $40 and up. Good luck finding a first-pressing sealed copy; it's probably a downpayment on a Hondajet.

But hey, why by used? Now you can buy it as a fancy OneStep and pay $100 for a lifeless audiophiled-out sound with "gorgeous" sonics and all the energy sapped out of it. It's boogie-down time for the 1%-ers, apparently. 🙄
That said, when I was in the Colorado Springs area late July this year, I scored big time. A week prior, I bought a few from a store in Boulder that weren't too badly priced. But when I hit Independent Records (after stopping at two other stores near the motel), I took advantage of their going out of business sale, and all but two or three of the 14 records I bought were $2.99 and $3.99. After a cleaning, all but one were good players.

There are bargains out there still. I just think certain venues and stores tend to cater to the elitists in this hobby. All we can do is vote with our wallets.
 
JohnVF said:
I tried getting the same jollies off of CDs, to the point of even buying two classic CD-players but... I just don't really like how they sound. Which kinda bums me out. Maybe its the CD players?
Click to expand...
The tactile part of CDs I've never liked. Even when I had relatively good eyesight, it was a struggle to read credits and liner notes. Fidgeting with the jewel cases was also frustrating at times. I just feel more engaged handling a record.

With my digital setup now, I can easily hear the difference between CD and high-res, even with my tinnitus. Not that CDs sound bad, but they sound different, and do alter the source material just due to the resolution being too low. When comparing a CD-resolution rip to high-res versions recently, it's easy to hear that the CD loses low-level information; to me, the reverb tapers off earlier on CDs, making them sound more "dry" if that makes sense. And that's just one example, and that may be why CD-resolution digital sounds artificially "clean."

240sx4u said:
This does bring up a totally OT thought of mine that I know we have talked about - I'd love to try out one of the $$$$ streamer setups to see what I am missing. Pitting 1500 dollar digital front ends against a vinyl front end that has factors more tied up in it really isn't a fair fight.
Click to expand...
The main thing here is that it's not the amount spent, it's spending wisely on a digital setup that gets around the problems and design flaws digital has. But I will say that having a streamer that addresses the issues can be a revelation.

And, one has to hear these devices in their own systems vs. hearing a demo on an unfamiliar system. Only at home can we get used to the products we already own, and clearly (or not so clearly) hear a difference when we put something new in the chain. That is the only way I noticed how the system improved with a properly executed streamer.
 
Rudy said:
With my digital setup now, I can easily hear the difference between CD and high-res, even with my tinnitus.
Click to expand...
That's what happened to me. I got this Pass Labs preamp in here to replace the lovely sounding but overtly colorful TVC and suddenly I can EASILY hear the difference between CD and high resolution digital. Which made me sad because I really had high hopes for both of my old CD players. Instead I'm going to have to find a way to cram my very large SACD player into the main system cabinet if I want tangible digital. Where's the sawzall?
 
Rudy said:
The tactile part of CDs I've never liked. Even when I had relatively good eyesight, it was a struggle to read credits and liner notes. Fidgeting with the jewel cases was also frustrating at times. I just feel more engaged handling a record.

With my digital setup now, I can easily hear the difference between CD and high-res, even with my tinnitus. Not that CDs sound bad, but they sound different, and do alter the source material just due to the resolution being too low. When comparing a CD-resolution rip to high-res versions recently, it's easy to hear that the CD loses low-level information; to me, the reverb tapers off earlier on CDs, making them sound more "dry" if that makes sense. And that's just one example, and that may be why CD-resolution digital sounds artificially "clean."


The main thing here is that it's not the amount spent, it's spending wisely on a digital setup that gets around the problems and design flaws digital has. But I will say that having a streamer that addresses the issues can be a revelation.

And, one has to hear these devices in their own systems vs. hearing a demo on an unfamiliar system. Only at home can we get used to the products we already own, and clearly (or not so clearly) hear a difference when we put something new in the chain. That is the only way I noticed how the system improved with a properly executed streamer.
Click to expand...

First off sorry about the tinnitus, I can relate.

If we're being honest I would not be playing discs if I didn't like using this player in my office. That and I do not have a streamer down there (yet).

I have a proton cd player in my main system, and it most certainly sounds worse than my node/dac combo. It does have a digital output so I can plumb it into my DAC if I so desire. There again why bother?

I can absolutely hear a difference between high rez and cd quality on my main system, but the reality is I just don't love the way it sounds. I really wish I did, which is why I have curiosities with higher end digital gear. To your point above though, unless I can try it at home it's kind of pointless. I'm also too lazy/cheap to drop the cash and deal with resale etc... looking for a goldilocks fit. I have had various digital pieces and to me they generally sound more similar than different.

Anyway I took this WAY off topic.
 
240sx4u said:
Anyway I took this WAY off topic.
Click to expand...
I mean, what's a Haven thread unless it goes off-topic? 😁

240sx4u said:
To your point above though, unless I can try it at home it's kind of pointless. I'm also too lazy/cheap to drop the cash and deal with resale etc... looking for a goldilocks fit. I have had various digital pieces and to me they generally sound more similar than different.
Click to expand...
The good stuff isn't inexpensive. Yet we also don't need to spend five figures and have an entire stack of components to play a digital stream though. Playing equipment roulette at this level isn't a good way to win.

And I agree--the few I've tried in the middle range all sounded pretty much the same. And other than slightly less edgy sound in two of my 1980s players (a Nakamichi OMS-7 and a Magnavox changer), other players I owned were competent mid-fi sound that served a purpose, but weren't necessarily anything I'd listen to at length. The Oppo 105 I had in my system did make slight improvement over everything else I owned at the time but it still wasn't ideal (and I used it mainly as a streamer back then). I almost jumped into getting the short-lived Oppo Sonica DAC but wisely didn't do so, as it would have been a sideways upgrade--I never would have heard the difference. Modding it with a tube output stage a la Modwright would have been silliness.
 
JohnVF said:
I tried getting the same jollies off of CDs, to the point of even buying two classic CD-players but... I just don't really like how they sound. Which kinda bums me out. Maybe its the CD players? I don't like how vintage speakers or electronics sound, why should the players be any different?
Click to expand...
imho, the old spinners are fantastic as transports. modern dacs are better than the dac chips in the vintage cd players. can you run one of your vintage players into a modern dac? see what happens. i cant say that i much prefer vinyl over transport/modern dac. both fantastic.
 
jblnut said:
Maybe I am living under a rock (a case could be made) but just because people are asking stupid money for questionable records, does that mean that all records at this fair will be $300? Or $100 or even 50? I gotta think a large scale fair like this might still have some decent 10 and 20 dollar titles.

Am I way off base ?
Click to expand...

I think you're absolutely correct.

Regardless of what DISCOGS states an album is worth, at these fairs there are blokes with piles of LPs who have been trying to offload their vinyl collection forever... and they eventually get realistic with pricing.

My issue is with the condition of the albums at these fairs. There are loads of folk out there who believe their scratched rubbish vinyl LPs are still worth top dollar - because it's scarce and its vinyl... "and all vinyl is worth a fortune these days!" 🙄

I could agree mint original sleeves still have value - even if the vinyl is damaged - but when both the sleeve and the media are less than NEAR MINT, they're not going to get a cent out of me. 😊

Click, click, click, click, click...
 
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