That economist was Milton Friedman, d*** his soul.
Jack Welch, The Man Who Broke Capitalism
In David Gelles’ new book, The Man Who Broke Capitalism —and How to Undo His Legacy, he chronicles how Welch’s laser focus on maximizing shareholder value by any means necessary - including layoffs, outsourcing, offshoring, acquisitions, and buybacks - became the new playbook in American business.www.forbes.com
RANT…..Audio as an Industry needs to do better
- Thread starter S0und Dragon
- Start date
The audio industry is digging its own grave with its prices. The only people who can afford something more than a Crosley portable are seniors who either robbed banks or were CEO's of Fortune 500 companies. And vintage gear one could once pick up for $100 now costs a $1,000 if it's Marantz or Pioneer for the same reason. It's only companies such as Schiit for electronics and Fluance for turntables and speakers who can offer something younger people can afford that's better than a lot of the garbage that's out there.
There’s quite a bit of affordable vintage around here but you have to invest time learning what is what and know to stay away from the “trendy” vintage like Pioneer. It’s not $100 but I’ve seen Onkyo integrateds, Hitachi, JVC…gear just as good if not better.
Couldn't agree more. A friend runs a vintage hi-fi store and whereas he has a Pioneer SX-626 (27 watts/channel) at $400, you could buy a Technics SA-5470 (65 w/c) for $350 or a 45 w/c Sansui 4000 for $280. He even had last time I was there an Onkyo preamp/tuner/power combo for $199 I almost bought it even though I have no use for it. He says Pioneer attracts newbie buyers because of all the switches and buttons and Marantz, because it looks classier than most gear.
I beg to differ. If you’re willing to swallow the Chineseium, there’s never been a cheaper time to buy new gear that sounds something like real music. If the youf want to seek it out, it’s there. The difference now is that you’re buying from Amazon, eBay, or AliExpress and you don’t get to listen to it first, so it pays to do your homework.
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240sx4u
Technically It's LexusGuy
One of the nice things about Amazon is how easy it is to return something if it's terrible.
Keep in mind...
A Marantz 2270 originally cost between $500 - $550. Converting 1971 dollars to 2023, that would cost about $3,720 to $4,100 today.
A used 2270 selling for $800 today would have been $107 back in 1971.
Not saying it explains some of the crazy prices on this stuff today but OTOH, it does put a certain perspective on things.
A Marantz 2270 originally cost between $500 - $550. Converting 1971 dollars to 2023, that would cost about $3,720 to $4,100 today.
A used 2270 selling for $800 today would have been $107 back in 1971.
Not saying it explains some of the crazy prices on this stuff today but OTOH, it does put a certain perspective on things.
JoeThePop
Known member
My 1987 Yamaha RX700u Receiver (65W per CH) had an MSRP of $599 ( I think I paid about $450 brand new). Today you can get a Yamaha R-N303 Receiver (100W per CH) with Bluetooth and Wi-Fi for $329.
Inflation often doesn’t work the same with consumer electronics. Most become cheaper as the technology matures.
Inflation often doesn’t work the same with consumer electronics. Most become cheaper as the technology matures.
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(unpopular opinion alert) And if you spent $4000 today, that poor Marantz 2270 would be left crying in the corner.
I agree, never a better time to put together a nice sounding, budget two-channel system. And while you can't go to a store and listen to it, there is abundant information on the stereo forums and YouTube advisors in this space. Most of the online stores have liberal return policies if it does not sound as expected.
Recently, for fun, I've been dabbling in this space of class D amps, low cost DACs, budget speakers - so many options and a lot of innovation.
Much of the gear is made in China, and the quality of materials is budget-quality aligned with its price. But it sounds good. I don't expect it to last a long-time, I try one budget setup for several months, may donate some gear to Goodwill, and then order some new gear. For me, it's fun.
Cheers,
Snade
I recently had an interaction for the purpose of repairing a nice fellow's Shearwaters, he'd purchased new in 1995. The guy loves them enough to bear the cost of having us replace both woofers for failure, separated by a couple of years.
He, like a number of guys, expressed his favor for the idea of us again building Shearwater. Well.....there's not a chance that I'll ever make a conventional passive speaker again, but it occurred to me to try the idea out and check his reaction. The tweeter that then cost $45 is now $140, and the then $75 woofer comes in at $190. $25 MDF is $100. Labor is at least 3X. Even if we restrained the idea to the CPI run up, we end up at (a too low to execute) $5.2K. So I floated the rough number: $7K.
Boy did that idea fall flat.
From where I sit, that's pretty much the lay of the land. But, yeah, it reflects a pretty good justification for running vintage gear at used prices.
The other side of that coin is, as pointed out by others and to some concern, the market for uppity priced product is really quite good. So if a guy wants to make audio product, that's just the way it is.
Back in 2017-18 I tried really hard to enter at $5K to 7K and more or less got nowhere. Following on the recent Shearwater interaction, my partner has expressed interest in trying entry level again, feeling that the market is much more receptive to Next Gen than it was just those few years ago. OK, probably so. She's presented me with a handful of nice ideas in the $8 - 10K range for complete systems, including streamer. Just add your network and tablet. At the top of her range is a pretty darn clever 3-way that looks like a real barrel of laughs, one that would handily destroy Shearwater.
Anyway, I'm saying: her ideas come in, CPI adjusted, comparable to a Shearwater and basic component system in 1995.
So that would pencil-out as a bargain, no? The question is, gut check: Is the market there?
He, like a number of guys, expressed his favor for the idea of us again building Shearwater. Well.....there's not a chance that I'll ever make a conventional passive speaker again, but it occurred to me to try the idea out and check his reaction. The tweeter that then cost $45 is now $140, and the then $75 woofer comes in at $190. $25 MDF is $100. Labor is at least 3X. Even if we restrained the idea to the CPI run up, we end up at (a too low to execute) $5.2K. So I floated the rough number: $7K.
Boy did that idea fall flat.
From where I sit, that's pretty much the lay of the land. But, yeah, it reflects a pretty good justification for running vintage gear at used prices.
The other side of that coin is, as pointed out by others and to some concern, the market for uppity priced product is really quite good. So if a guy wants to make audio product, that's just the way it is.
Back in 2017-18 I tried really hard to enter at $5K to 7K and more or less got nowhere. Following on the recent Shearwater interaction, my partner has expressed interest in trying entry level again, feeling that the market is much more receptive to Next Gen than it was just those few years ago. OK, probably so. She's presented me with a handful of nice ideas in the $8 - 10K range for complete systems, including streamer. Just add your network and tablet. At the top of her range is a pretty darn clever 3-way that looks like a real barrel of laughs, one that would handily destroy Shearwater.
Anyway, I'm saying: her ideas come in, CPI adjusted, comparable to a Shearwater and basic component system in 1995.
So that would pencil-out as a bargain, no? The question is, gut check: Is the market there?
inthewoodsnolonger
AARP Member
It’s good to be old and not need anything. Wants a different story altogether.
I'm pretty much in those shoes too Tom. 🙂
When I get the wants, I sit in front of my system and they go away….or I forget about them….
What was I saying??
Yep. I'm at that age also. 😁
JoeThePop
Known member
And the here after after moments… when you go out to the garage, forget what you are here after, turn around and walk back into the house, remember what you were there after, go back into the garage and wonder again what you’re here after.
I've done that more than a few times.
I've done that more than a few times.
My most recent version of this is when I'm in the office and have finished my morning coffee, I head to the kitchen/break room to rinse out my mug, only to find once I arrive there that I don't actually have said mug with me to rinse. Things get worse if someone then asks me a question or shows me something shiny, all bets are now off and the best case scenario is the mug will get rinsed sometime later that afternoon, or maybe not at all.
I made a hot pot of water this morning instead of coffee. I had even weighted and ground the coffee but the part where the coffee goes from the grinder to the coffee maker slipped my mind. In my defense I was up an hour earlier than I normally am.
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