RANT…..Audio as an Industry needs to do better

[S0und Dragon]

I had originally typed out a diatribe/manifesto for this topic. I was a bit peeved and am still a bit disappointed with a recent experience. In my original post, I was naming names and spewing venom and that is just not what this place is about.

So, why am I annoyed? I have had a few experiences in Audio on the retail side that have left me feeling absolute disdain and disgust for audio as a business. I have always been a big fan of supporting local businesses and brick and mortar stores. But as of late, I have been left feeling that my business is not wanted as I am not looking to spend used car amounts of money and am knowledgeable enough to not get sucked into the marketing spin that has become sales talking points in our industry.

Furthermore, the audio industry has become completely self serving. At the expense of the consumers. There are gate keepers and insiders that collude with each other to keep prices high. The current distribution and dealer model has become anticompetitive and dare I say unfavorable. The rise of direct to consumer HiFi has fared no better. There are no bargains in audio anymore. And while that in and of itself doesn’t bother me, the greed of some of these companies does. If the benefits of a direct purchase is a cheaper price by eliminating the middleman, the price of the product should reflect that.

I have no idea who the current crop of audio companies are building gear for. Stereo has become expensive for the sake of expensiveness it would seem. I do not begrudge anyone making money and am a believer that folks are entitled to fair wages for their work. But some of this pricing has become absolutely absurd. And not just the Ultra high end, but the middle fidelity has started to become a bit out of reach. Maybe I am just completely wrong about this and I am more than prepared to be corrected. But I find it hard not to think that this hobby is starting to push away the average consumer. It is effectively eating its own dwindling base.

 

[S0und Dragon]

And as an added point, I am definitely aware of inflation and supply chain issues. But even that cannot explain some of the pricing increases that the industry has seen. What it has however had an effect on is quality of materials and devices. Pandemic production was definitely not up to par as pre pandemic production. But the audio business saw a spike in sales during the pandemic and increased prices due to increased demand. And then we got inflation and all the effects that came with it. I suspect with the possibility of hard times ahead, a correction will happen. Folks can’t exactly eat stereo gear. And for a lot of folks, these are indeed lean times.

 

[JohnVF]

I feel in general that, almost suddenly, that everything that was working no longer works. Not just audio but everything. And most of it I’ll lay at the hand of raw greed but it cascades from there.

I’ve not had much experience with retail hi-fi lately. My go-to store is managed by friends of mine so my experience is skewed by that. In generally I think audio has given up the future for a grab it before it goes away downwards spiral. And the collusion between various on-hand-washes-the-other entities isn’t exactly hidden. There’s alternatives now cropping up though, especially in the reviewer space.

This was pre-pandemic and I’ve mentioned it before, but I know of one manufacturer who was told by their distributor to raise prices to sell more gear and stay in business. That they weren’t being taken seriously by consumers because of their pricing. So they reluctantly did and sales increased and the glowing reviews came in. So the consumer is a bit to blame but they’ve learned that bias somewhere.

It’s a small hobby for many reasons but I think most are self inflicted.

I really only buy used stuff anymore anyway. I don’t like the industry and don’t want to deal with it. I find audio shows to be a combination of depression and disgust on my part. I really cannot stand them.

 

[Katalyst]

And most of it I’ll lay at the hand of raw greed but it cascades from there.

This is the core problem. Not just in Audio. It permeates all of today's economy.

 

[airdronian]

This is the core problem. Not just in Audio. It permeates all of today's economy.

Ain't that the truth. I absolutely abhor the latest scam for concert ticket pricing - only the people with lots of spare cash can afford these tickets. It's all about the $$$.

 

[MrEd]

This is the core problem. Not just in Audio. It permeates all of today's economy.

The current trend is caused by a shift in economic strategy that came into play heavily over the last few decades.
In the 50s through early 80s it was believed that a company or corporation had a liability to their customers and employees.
A well know economist ( can't remember the name) started pushing the philosophy that the only liability the corporation has is to its shareholders.
It snow balled to where we are now.

 

[240sx4u]

I have been helping a friend find something new to replace a set of separates that I loaned him years ago that have gone flaky. I have to admit I was taken aback at what things are now costing for something that I consider "mid-fi". I looked at the direct to consumer avenues as well hoping for something more palatable cost wise and it just wasn't there.

As for retail - We have one local place left. I have a chip on my shoulder with that shop. I walked in there when I was in my mid 20s and frustrated with all my old high end gear breaking. They had a Krell integrated on the shelf that I was interested in. I think it was maybe 1300 bucks in 2009. I asked if it was possible to home demo it on a Sunday when they weren't open, they flat refused and I even offered to pay for it if they would give me a refund if I returned it. It was pretty clear at that point they weren't taking me seriously and I haven't walked in there since.

So the gatekeeping assholes have been prevalent for years.

 

[Rudy]

I don't know about greed, but I do know that a lot of audio, especially high-end audio, has shifted from "cost plus markup" to a "whatever the market will bear" price. That's why I'm so torn when I attend AXPONA--I want my show coverage to touch on what the manufacturers are offering, yet it's hard to take them seriously when they rattle off a five-figure price tag without even flinching, and treat four-figure purchases as though they are pocket change. (Where I'm really tempted to say, "Are you f***ing kidding me?") The bulk of show attendees can't afford most of it...yet they still attend, and exhibitors still exhibit.

Jay Jay French poked around this topic in his show report this year (in the context of having attended shows as far back as the late 70s):

Some Thoughts On AXPONA 2023

Above: The PS Audio crew and friends (from front left around the table): Mike Bechtel, Cindi Bechtel, Jay Jay French, Chris Brunhaver, Aaron Marrs, James Herod, Jim Laib (doing his impersonation of the Flash), Chris Harden, Scott McGowan, Terri McGowan (partially hidden), Paul McGowan, Frank...

www.psaudio.com

After three full days of walkthrough it became clear that our “little” hobby’ has reached an economic strata that few could ever have imagined would happen.​

​

Whereas in the ’70s I believe that 95 percent of the displayed gear was reasonably obtainable, at the AXPONA show it looked to me like 95 percent of the gear was not. The show has become, in my opinion, an aspirational display of the mostly unobtainable.​

...​

If you believe that inflation is the culprit for today’s prices…well, even if you consider that the dollar is worth about four times more now than it was in 1979, it's not about inflation.​

​

90 percent of the companies that displayed gear in 1979 at the New York Audio Show are no longer in business.​

​

I just want to say at this point that current inexpensive systems (let’s say under 10K all-in) by a number of well-known manufacturers can sound fantastic, because lots of the crazy expensive technology of yesterday can be had for bargain prices today, proving it does trickle down…if you know where to look.​

Our local audio retail environment has changed drastically. Back in the day, all but one of the retailers were welcoming to anyone, with any budget. Almas, The Gramophone, Pecar's, and especially Absolute Sound (where I spent too much money, and sent many friends and family to shop at) were regular stops for us. (There was another local retailer who was maybe a little higher end, but he never treated me with anything other than an elitist, condescending attitude.) Even Tech HiFi is gone. Today's stores I won't even bother seeking out. One seems to be by appointment only. Another is an hour away in That College Town and from what I've heard from a few others who have been there (and have seen in person at AXPONA), they have a similar "holier than thou" attitude. I thought that Almas and maybe Pecar's were still around somewhere, and I realize some stores have pivoted to home theater over audio. Still, I'm not inclined to look anymore. I'm beyond giving a crap.

No matter, though. I don't let it upset me. One can still dig for a bargain and find it, or be patient and wait for something to become available used. If the new equipment dealers want to keep me away, no big deal. There will be an online seller (a dealer, or private individual) who will fulfill my need. The industry is not going to change and is shooting itself in the foot and honestly, I don't care anymore. Let 'em. The good, honest manufacturers will remain.

 

[jblnut]

I feel you man. I have a couple of McIntosh components and I am on their mailing list. I was floored yesterday when I got the email about their new subwoofer. It's a 6 foot tower with 4 13" woofers and a built in amp with a blue meter in the base.

It's FIFTY THOUSAND DOLLARS !

That, is a bridge way too far.

Preach on brother!

 

[JohnVF]

The audio industry echoes the wealth inequality that is happening everywhere. A few people buying more things, in lieu of many people buying fewer things. And many audio companies seem to have noticed that its easier to sell something that's $20,000 to five people than something that's $200 to 500 people.

I'll be honest, I'm almost at a breaking point with working in corporate America and I don't know what to do, maybe its just my job but it doesn't feel like I'm an outlier. Everybody tells me how lucky I am to have my job but it comes with an anxiety and panic disorder, no free time, cancelling plans over and over, a marriage that's being impacted by never being home. If you care about anything other than working, you get to just be unhappy

 

[S0und Dragon]

There is definitely some correlation between the hobbies industry and our current economic climate and employment culture. They are all anxiety riddled and greed driven.

 

[Audionut]

I feel you man. I have a couple of McIntosh components and I am on their mailing list. I was floored yesterday when I got the email about their new subwoofer. It's a 6 foot tower with 4 13" woofers and a built in amp with a blue meter in the base.

It's FIFTY THOUSAND DOLLARS !

That, is a bridge way too far.

Preach on brother!

I am on the mailing list also and was floored when I saw the price tag on that single tower, multiply that times two for stereo subs; $100k!!!!
I can’t imagine supplies being more than 5 to 6k, adding labor and maybe you are at $10,000 for that build?

If there is any, saving grace is that DIY…also, there are talks of bringing RadioShack out of bankruptcy, though this might be worthy of its own thread.

 

[S0und Dragon]

I am on the mailing list also and was floored when I saw the price tag on that single tower, multiply that times two for stereo subs; $100k!!!!
I can’t imagine supplies being more than 5 to 6k, adding labor and maybe you are at $10,000 for that build

I was absolutely shocked that the new flagship Sonus Faber Strads are “only” 50K. Which was way less considering what the flagship Focal, Magico and Wilson’s are going for. Seems reasonable in comparison. Again, not wanting to denigrate the way that a company makes money. But who exactly is buying these things besides Jays Audio Lab?

 

[Katalyst]

A well know economist ( can't remember the name) started pushing the philosophy that the only liability the corporation has is to its shareholders.
It snow balled to where we are now.

Jack Welch, The Man Who Broke Capitalism

In David Gelles’ new book, The Man Who Broke Capitalism —and How to Undo His Legacy, he chronicles how Welch’s laser focus on maximizing shareholder value by any means necessary - including layoffs, outsourcing, offshoring, acquisitions, and buybacks - became the new playbook in American business.

www.forbes.com

 

[JoeThePop]

The audio industry echoes the wealth inequality that is happening everywhere. A few people buying more things, in lieu of many people buying fewer things. And many audio companies seem to have noticed that its easier to sell something that's $20,000 to five people than something that's $200 to 500 people.

I'll be honest, I'm almost at a breaking point with working in corporate America and I don't know what to do, maybe its just my job but it doesn't feel like I'm an outlier. Everybody tells me how lucky I am to have my job but it comes with an anxiety and panic disorder, no free time, cancelling plans over and over, a marriage that's being impacted by never being home. If you care about anything other than working, you get to just be unhappy

Yep. My job in a nutshell. We are constantly told the lie of how our corporation is worried about work/life balance and then buried with an impossible amount of work that we are then graded on so they have an excuse to be stingy with wage increases. And everything done to drive costs down to meet the demands of shareholders (staffing cuts, buyouts of experienced workers so they can be replaced with cheaper offshore labor, unreasonable demands for supplier price cuts) only makes matters worse. It is incredibly short sighted but large institutional investors aren’t concerned with the long term goals and health of the company (or its employees), they want immediate returns on their investment. It’s a vicious cycle that greed will continue to make worse.

 

[Kpatch]

Jack Welch, The Man Who Broke Capitalism

In David Gelles’ new book, The Man Who Broke Capitalism —and How to Undo His Legacy, he chronicles how Welch’s laser focus on maximizing shareholder value by any means necessary - including layoffs, outsourcing, offshoring, acquisitions, and buybacks - became the new playbook in American business.

www.forbes.com

This.

 

[Rudy]

I'll be honest, I'm almost at a breaking point with working in corporate America and I don't know what to do, maybe its just my job but it doesn't feel like I'm an outlier.

I've always worked for privately-held, smaller companies, or as independent contractor. It's the way to go, but only if a person can get into the right company and/or the right field of work. I almost thought of going back to a company I worked for 20 years ago but having seen that the owner is semi-retired and his son is the president now, and there was always a lot of nepotism, fat chance I'll ever go back there. But I'm burned out on what I'm doing now, and the one good (?) thing I know is that larger corporations won't touch me since they don't hire anyone 50+. (Just try proving age discrimination...I've been dealing with it since I turned 40. All a company needs to say is "not suited for the job" and they get off the hook.)

Ain't that the truth. I absolutely abhor the latest scam for concert ticket pricing - only the people with lots of spare cash can afford these tickets. It's all about the $$$.

Some of the problem there is also cost. It's not so much a scam as it is every piece of the puzzle costing more and more money. Small club gigs usually cost no more than flying in a band and their instruments. Large tours have trucks to haul equipment, a crew that needs to be paid more than minimum wage, gobs of insurance to cover everyone (the venue, the crew, the equipment, liability), travel costs (tour buses or flights for the band, fuel/rental costs for the equipment in trucks), any fees the venue might charge, and then a greedy promoter dipping their hands into the till (which I still insist is why bands that come to our area are usually a higher price than surrounding cities).

And now that streaming has come along, artists want more of the money themselves since anyone but the top tier of touring bands/artists is not making all that much from going on the road anymore. With physical media sales a small fraction of what it used to be, the boost in royalties (performance, songwriting) from increased album sales just isn't seen when a lot of the income trickles in a penny at a time via streaming. It also doesn't help that the ultimate pinnacle of greed, LiveNation/Ticketmaster, has a monopoly both on major venues as well as ticket sales, and their "surge" pricing, basically boosting prices when tickets are popular, aside from running a legal scalping ticket resale site with its own demand pricing in place, it's no wonder some artists have apologized in recent years due to the high cost of their own concerts, where even they know prices are out of control.

So yea, I avoid concerts also. I see it as both ends of the chain (the artists/bands, and the fans) being the ones who ultimately get screwed by all the falderal in between. The entire "system" is broken here.

I am on the mailing list also and was floored when I saw the price tag on that single tower, multiply that times two for stereo subs; $100k!!!!
I can’t imagine supplies being more than 5 to 6k, adding labor and maybe you are at $10,000 for that build?

I know, right? It's like the ProAc speakers I listened to. $11K for the pair, which were basically a vented two-way tower system with a woofer and ribbon tweeter. No matter whether it uses fancy wood or not...$11K? (Current price is a few thousand more.) Did they sound good? Yes. Did they sound $11K? Nope. What really irks me is seeing all the new flood of streaming/music "library" components that are several thousand dollars...for what? A common computer chip, proprietary software, in a fancy case? And why does an upgrade in storage space cost a small fortune when the drives used inside might only cost $100 more? I just see it as high-end audio playing their well-heeled customers as fools.

I feel you man. I have a couple of McIntosh components and I am on their mailing list. I was floored yesterday when I got the email about their new subwoofer. It's a 6 foot tower with 4 13" woofers and a built in amp with a blue meter in the base.

It's FIFTY THOUSAND DOLLARS !

I can go on Craigslist and buy stacks of unwanted powered subs and probably get the same results with a thousand bucks. 🤣

Crazy, innit? So many things have become "audio jewelry."

I was absolutely shocked that the new flagship Sonus Faber Strads are “only” 50K. Which was way less considering what the flagship Focal, Magico and Wilson’s are going for.

Here's a little tidbit. The Infinity IRS V system had an MSRP of $45,000 in 1988. That is about $116,000+ in 2023 dollars. But that was an outlier. Outside of other rare/experimental designs that may have sold to the public (I am not aware of any), it's not like every high-end company back then had a $45k speaker on the market. (What else was available back then?)

It's almost like you can't play with the big boys anymore unless you have a six-digit flagship to one-up your competitors' six-digit flagships. And that's any component...turntables, amps, speakers, you name it.

If there is any, saving grace is that DIY…also, there are talks of bringing RadioShack out of bankruptcy, though this might be worthy of its own thread.

I miss having them around for emergency parts runs, but I think that ship has sailed. I hate to say it, but I think those of us who tinker with electronics are the last of the generations who show any interest. For that matter, I'm missing the Heathkit of the 60s and 70s, after having watched my grandfather build a few things, and using others he had built. Even without Radio Shack, I can only think of two electronics stores in my metro area--one is across town, and the other is three blocks from the house. We used to have at least three where I live (including the current one), others around the metro area, and that was on top of the Radio Shacks.

 

[JoeThePop]

This …

Ahh yes. We got "Little Jack" (Bob Nardelli), a mentee of Welch, as CEO after Daimler raped Chrysler, left us with no cash and little in the way of new vehicles in the pipeline, and sold us to Cerberus. I'm convinced he was brought in to divest Chrysler of anything valuable (Jeeps and Trucks) and fold up the tent. But then the housing collapse happened (again, greed) and Cerebus got left holding the bag, Nobody was buying.

 

[Rudy]

Ahh yes. We got "Little Jack" (Bob Nardelli), a mentee of Welch, as CEO after Daimler raped Chrysler, left us with no cash and little in the way of new vehicles in the pipeline, and sold us to Cerberus. I'm convinced he was brought in to divest Chrysler of anything valuable (Jeeps and Trucks) and fold up the tent. But then the housing collapse happened (again, greed) and Cerebus got left holding the bag, Nobody was buying.

Rinse and repeat. Sounds like typical corporate behavior to me.

Eddie Lampert did the same thing with Sears/K-Mart. He singlehandedly destroyed it by stripping away anything of value (sold off divisions like Craftsman, Diehard, Land's End, etc.), and did a few shady real estate transactions in the background to pull cash out. I'd write more but it would run the length of a novel. He borders on being a criminal, but he's mainly guilty of destroying two iconic retailers that instead of growing and changing with the times, were nickel-and-dimed into oblivion.

 

[pdreher]

Jack Welch, The Man Who Broke Capitalism

In David Gelles’ new book, The Man Who Broke Capitalism —and How to Undo His Legacy, he chronicles how Welch’s laser focus on maximizing shareholder value by any means necessary - including layoffs, outsourcing, offshoring, acquisitions, and buybacks - became the new playbook in American business.

www.forbes.com

Capitalism has evolved into making the already wealthy even wealthier. The wage gap between the senior level leadership and everyone else continues to expand. I'm seeing more articles that Unions are gaining traction, likely as a result of corporate over reach and greed. I'm glad I only have 6 or 7 years before I can semi-retire (work part-time). I feel bad for the younger generations.