SunAudio, Sunvalley and Shindo

blue_lu

blue_lu

I am currently looking into these Japanese brands and I have some questions and observations I wanted to discuss.

Regarding Sunvalley and Sunaudio: I am just curious how people like these two manufacturers / kit makers? Their 300b amps in particular... Sunaudio esp. seems to have a little cult following in Europe. Part selection seems alright (transformers seem good) but not spectacular from the gutshots I have seen.
Herb Reichert seems to like the sun valley phono stage, but revealed that he is only using his finest NOS glass in it and that this would make or brake the preamp.

How would you rate them against the more esoteric japanese ready-built brands like Shindo that actually use many NOS parts? As far as I understand, Shindo seems to be more after the klangfilm 40-50s aesthetic in their sound and part choices.

One thing that kind of stuck with me from a recent trip to Japan: I talked to some Jazz Kissa owners / Hifi people - none of them knew about Shindo. I haven't found any japanese articles about Shindo. Yet in the western world most audiophiles rave about the company - there seems to be quite a discrepancy between the recognition of shindo inside and outside of Japan. What do you make of this?

Out of all of these brands listed I have only listened to shindo gear, but in a subpar environment. Unfortunately I wasn't as fasicnated by the sound as I would have hoped to be. Yet, many people and (ex-) distributers keep pushing the brand. But I have to say I am still curious about all these brands, hence this thread...
 
I preferred Yamamoto to Shindo when I was playing in this end of the pool. I have lusted after a sunvalley tube phono stage for a long time. Hard to go wrong if this is the type of sound you are chasing.
 
S0und Dragon said:
I preferred Yamamoto to Shindo when I was playing in this end of the pool. I have lusted after a sunvalley tube phono stage for a long time. Hard to go wrong if this is the type of sound you are chasing.
Click to expand...
Can you expound more on your statement regarding the two brands and components you used?
 
Audionut said:
Can you expound more on your statement regarding the two brands and components you used?
Click to expand...
A few years back, I fell into a pursuit of a sound that I heard while at another audio buddies house. He was running Jubilees with Craig’s VRD monos and a Juicy Music Blueberry extreme amp. I was absolutely blown away by that system and wanted to duplicate it on a smaller scale. At same the time on AK, there was a guy who’s name escapes me that was super modifying a pair of Fortes. This started me on my own quest and I quickly snagged a pair and got to work. While I was thinking of going with Craig’s amps as well, I wasn’t convinced that it was what I wanted for me.

I fell into a fortunate situation of being able to acquire a Shindo Monbrison pre and pair of Sinhonia F2a monos for a I’d be crazy not to price. I felt I was on my way to something more like the fabled SET sound. But I am a bit wiser now then I was then. I assumed SET was this romantic lush WE sound. But the Sinhonia’s where so not that sound at all. They are also PP which I didn’t know at the time. They were some of the most honest and trustworthy amps in reference to sonic character. While absolutely amazing, it was not the sound I thought I was after.

So I quickly realized that I could not only recoup my investment but make a decent profit from moving the Shindo gear along. And that is what I did. I invested some of the funds back into the money pit that is “improving” speakers and also acquired my next amp and pre. After consulting with some friends at the time, I blindly (deafly?) purchased a Yamamoto A-08s and CA-04 line stage. This is the combination that made me realize that I had arrived.

Mind you, it a still was not the “Tube” sound I was chasing. But this combination did what no other system had done up to that point. Similar tonal truth as the Shindo set, but a wider range and conveying of the audio band. It was just sweet music.

In the grand scheme of 20/20 hindsight, I should have stayed right there. I lived with that amp and pre for a while before I put them away to go back to solid state and I sold them off eventually to find other things. But that Yamamoto combo has left an indelible impression on me.
 
S0und Dragon said:
I preferred Yamamoto to Shindo when I was playing in this end of the pool. I have lusted after a sunvalley tube phono stage for a long time. Hard to go wrong if this is the type of sound you are chasing.
Click to expand...
The thing is - I don't really know, if I am after "that kind of sound" or what "that sound" really is. So far it is merely a romantic idea in my head. I definitely have fallen victim to the mysterious aura. Ha. Mainly curiosity...

Thanks for elaborating on the Yamamoto line.
 
Hi @blue_lu - I have a Sun Audio SV-2A3 SE and Shindo GM-70 SE amps. You can read bit of my impressions of them in my intro thread Muzak listening system

I have also heard Shindo's SE Cortese F2a and the Montille EL84 PP amps in my system, as well as the A-08s. But have never heard their 300b.

In general the SV-2A3 compares pretty well to the Shindo, but mine is built up with some very nice parts, and good build quality. The transformers are excellent. If pressed and if I had to sell up my Shindo gear, I could happily live with the Sun.

But, I prefer my Shindo.

There are some issues with the Sun and it's original parts that are easily addressed, and that I think apply to the 300b version as well. Noisey IEC connector, lack of chassis grounding, not the best volume pots and connectors. It is also pretty high gain, and can easily be run without a pre.

It responds very well to rolling tubes.

The 2A3 version is easily modified to a 300b, and vice versa.

I have a doc put together with mods and links I can share with you via a PM tomorrow.

Happy to answer any questions.
 
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S0und Dragon said:
A few years back, I fell into a pursuit of a sound that I heard while at another audio buddies house. He was running Jubilees with Craig’s VRD monos and a Juicy Music Blueberry extreme amp. I was absolutely blown away by that system and wanted to duplicate it on a smaller scale. At same the time on AK, there was a guy who’s name escapes me that was super modifying a pair of Fortes. This started me on my own quest and I quickly snagged a pair and got to work. While I was thinking of going with Craig’s amps as well, I wasn’t convinced that it was what I wanted for me.

I fell into a fortunate situation of being able to acquire a Shindo Monbrison pre and pair of Sinhonia F2a monos for a I’d be crazy not to price. I felt I was on my way to something more like the fabled SET sound. But I am a bit wiser now then I was then. I assumed SET was this romantic lush WE sound. But the Sinhonia’s where so not that sound at all. They are also PP which I didn’t know at the time. They were some of the most honest and trustworthy amps in reference to sonic character. While absolutely amazing, it was not the sound I thought I was after.

So I quickly realized that I could not only recoup my investment but make a decent profit from moving the Shindo gear along. And that is what I did. I invested some of the funds back into the money pit that is “improving” speakers and also acquired my next amp and pre. After consulting with some friends at the time, I blindly (deafly?) purchased a Yamamoto A-08s and CA-04 line stage. This is the combination that made me realize that I had arrived.

Mind you, it a still was not the “Tube” sound I was chasing. But this combination did what no other system had done up to that point. Similar tonal truth as the Shindo set, but a wider range and conveying of the audio band. It was just sweet music.

In the grand scheme of 20/20 hindsight, I should have stayed right there. I lived with that amp and pre for a while before I put them away to go back to solid state and I sold them off eventually to find other things. But that Yamamoto combo has left an indelible impression on me.
Click to expand...
I started out the same way - hearing a set of home built Tannoy Gold GRF Pro powered by home brew 2A3 SET amps. Transformative.

But, I quickly found I could not afford the Golds... So, luckily, I started my upgrade path with my 604s and then went to SET amps and then to Shindo-la-la-land. I could imagine what hooking up my current Shindo gear to my old speakers would sound like... 😱

How much of this improved sound could be attributed to your speakers?

Have you heard any Shindo gear since the speaker upgrades?
 
That was another time bud. Long gone. I enjoyed it and if I ever am in a situation where I can do multiple systems in different areas or rooms, I would love to do a Japanese Kissa bar lounge room with Japanese set and some cool horn speakers. It’s not a sound I could live with every day. But when you want it, it’s nice to have. I do have an acquaintance with Shindo gear and Onkens that I have not seen in a long time. I should reach out.
 
I lived with a Shindo Monbrison for a few years. Loved the sound but eventually sold off... let's just call it a reallocation of resources.

With my DIY, buy used and good bang for the buck mentality, Shindo isn't a good fit for me. I just think it's too expensive for what it is.

The preamps are special and if I could get a great deal on one of their upper models, I would go for it... but not holding my breath as they never sell cheap.. and there's probably a good reason for that.

I've heard great things about their el84 and 6l6 amps and supposedly relative bargains in the Shindo line up.

Keep in mind, Shindo preamps don't always play nice with out of brand amps and there is a reason why all Shindo amps have attenuation.

Regarding other Japanese (better value but similar sonics) choices I would ad Uesugi Bos in the mix. I have a Ubros-1 preamp that typically sell for about $3k. I really like it. It has that great balance of organic beauty, gobs of detail and dynamics that old shcool Japanese Kit is known for. Supposedly Ken Shindo had one in his office and used it as inspiration.

I'm not familiar with their amps but they sure look nice. They have a 300B mono-block that is about a fourth the cost of the Shindo 300B.

BTW... UBros SUT's are also a bargain with old school Tamura iron.

I am curious as to what your Japanese contacts say about U-Bros.

Here's the innards of my Ubros-1 that shows some re-capping. The power supply is external.
 

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I've visited Sun Audio in Tokyo's Akihibara's district a few times and while there listened to their VT25, 2A3, and 300B amps and more recently their PSE 50 amp. The Vt25 and 2A3 were traditional cap coupled SE amps while the 300B and 50 amps used interstage transformers. I liked the VT25 amp enough to buy one of their kits, which I built and still have. I also liked the 300B and 50 amps. For some reason, I didn't care for the 2A3 amp. I've also listened to Shindo amps and liked them, although I wasn't sure they were the best value for the money. With these amps, system synergy matters, so be prepared for some work getting the sound of your dreams.
 
doglv said:
Regarding other Japanese (better value but similar sonics) choices I would ad Uesugi Bos in the mix. I have a Ubros-1 preamp that typically sell for about $3k. I really like it. It has that great balance of organic beauty, gobs of detail and dynamics that old shcool Japanese Kit is known for. Supposedly Ken Shindo had one in his office and used it as inspiration.

I'm not familiar with their amps but they sure look nice. They have a 300B mono-block that is about a fourth the cost of the Shindo 300B.

BTW... UBros SUT's are also a bargain with old school Tamura iron.

I am curious as to what your Japanese contacts say about U-Bros.
Click to expand...

hifihaven.org

Check out this amp from Ken Uesugi - Otomon Lab of Japan

I love the design of this amp. Totally unsafe for cats, kids and foolish people like me. But really cool. Anyone know anything about this guy? More pics at his website: OTOMON Laboratory　(音門ラボ) / 10Y/VT-25/VT-62/801 stereo tube amplifier on wooden board cheers, Derek
hifihaven.org hifihaven.org
 
opnly bafld said:
hifihaven.org

Check out this amp from Ken Uesugi - Otomon Lab of Japan

I love the design of this amp. Totally unsafe for cats, kids and foolish people like me. But really cool. Anyone know anything about this guy? More pics at his website: OTOMON Laboratory　(音門ラボ) / 10Y/VT-25/VT-62/801 stereo tube amplifier on wooden board cheers, Derek
hifihaven.org hifihaven.org
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I have taken one or two of these in on repair, and the soldering quality is poor enough that I will stick my neck out and suggest looking elsewhere. In the Ottomon components I have worked on, component leads are rested against terminals then soldered, so no mechanical connections are used prior to soldering. During shipping and general handling, these just tend to pop right off. This is soldering 101...

If you're in Japan and local service from the factory is an option, then you could certainly disregard this advice.
 
Shindo should be thought of as a system probably. That's not good for some people, great for others. I like knowing which interconnects and speaker cables to use...which speakers work, which others don't. I like that after all these years I can stop f*ing around and just listen to music. And that I do....a lot. I play a little with sources now and tinker with my Altecs, but otherwise, unless I win the lottery, I'm done.
Despite Pauls' concerns there is service available in the US, but it is beyond slow. Probably faster to ship to Japan honestly.
And why is it more popular here and in Europe? Art Dudley? Keith Aschenbrenner?
 
GaryB said:
I've visited Sun Audio in Tokyo's Akihibara's district a few times and while there listened to their VT25, 2A3, and 300B amps and more recently their PSE 50 amp. The Vt25 and 2A3 were traditional cap coupled SE amps while the 300B and 50 amps used interstage transformers. I liked the VT25 amp enough to buy one of their kits, which I built and still have. I also liked the 300B and 50 amps. For some reason, I didn't care for the 2A3 amp. I've also listened to Shindo amps and liked them, although I wasn't sure they were the best value for the money. With these amps, system synergy matters, so be prepared for some work getting the sound of your dreams.
Click to expand...
Their 300b stereo amps use the same topology as their 2A3. The monoblocs are interstage.

 
GaryB said:
I've visited Sun Audio in Tokyo's Akihibara's district a few times and while there listened to their VT25, 2A3, and 300B amps and more recently their PSE 50 amp..... I liked the VT25 amp enough to buy one of their kits, which I built and still have.
Click to expand...
Years ago a friend loaned a Sun Audio VT25 amp from the mid 2000s. It sounded nice and the output transformers looked good on the scope too! I hope they are still using Tamura OEM OPTs.
 
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