Vintage turntable thread - which one?

[Berkeley]

I have a Dual 1229 idler with Shure V15 cartridge and a standard tone arm. It works well. The rest of my system is vintage tubes and speakers so I would like to keep the TT vintage if possible. And I really can't afford $3,000.00 turntables. (I also have a Dial 1209 but that's not why I've started this thread..... )

I used to have a Ariston RD11 with a Shure tonearm (not RD11s) and it met a semi tragic end. * I still miss it. But I know of an Ariston Audio RD11s for sale and love the look plus I have the fond memories it brings to me. It has a Rega R200 tonearm which is pretty decent.

Would switching to an Ariston RD11s would make much of a difference from my Dual 1229 re: sound quality? I presume that my Shure V15 cartridge could fit either table.

I know that Ariston and Linn were rather similar in their approach to turntables back in the day. Perhaps a third choice could be a Linn LP12 although I have read that it constantly needs tweaking which I would not be able to do as I have more thumbs than fingers. I don't know if an RD11s would be the same.

Then there is a Systemdek IIX possibility but I don't know where I can get one and have no idea what it sounds like... I would have to hunt it down, I guess.

Sorry for the rambling post! All comments welcomed!

 

[Berkeley]

* For the curious - And now the tragic story (by the Juicy Fruits)

Bought my Ariston Audio RD11 from an auctioneer maybe 20 years ago. It needed help so I took it to an expert who balanced it, etc. but the Shure tonearm was missing the balance weight so it wasn't quite right. Took it to another expert in another stereo shop that shall remain nameless (they are now closed and have moved away) to look at the tonearm.

When I got it back the cabinet was different. Someone was having their TT fixed (I think it was a Linn) and naturally they chose the better looking cabinet (MINE!!!) - too bad it looked completely different from my original. Not only that, it was damaged!!! There was nothing that I could do. @Wardsweb reminded me of this story.... I normally try not to think of it.

It looked like this screenshot grabbed from the internet:

 

[Thermionics]

* For the curious - And now the tragic story (by the Juicy Fruits)

Bought my Ariston Audio RD11 from an auctioneer maybe 20 years ago. It needed help so I took it to an expert who balanced it, etc. but the Shure tonearm was missing the balance weight so it wasn't quite right. Took it to another expert in another stereo shop that shall remain nameless (they are now closed and have moved away) to look at the tonearm.

When I got it back the cabinet was different. Someone was having their TT fixed (I think it was a Linn) and naturally they chose the better looking cabinet (MINE!!!) - too bad it looked completely different from my original. Not only that, it was damaged!!! There was nothing that I could do. @Wardsweb reminded me of this story.... I normally try not to think of it.

It looked like this screenshot grabbed from the internet:

Wait - the audio shop swiped your plinth? That's outright theft!

 

[Punker X]

I had a 1229Q with V15III, never warmed to its sound and sold it off. I think if you got a good working RD11 or LP12, Rega, SME or Linn arm, you would not miss your 1229. I do like the V15III. Currently have on a Technics SL-1650 in my living room

 

[Jn229]

I would choose the Ariston, IMHO

 

[Berkeley]

I had a 1229Q with V15III, never warmed to its sound and sold it off. I think if you got a good working RD11 or LP12, Rega, SME or Linn arm, you would not miss your 1229. I do like the V15III. Currently have on a Technics SL-1650 in my living room

Do you think the V15 III would work on the RD11 / Rega R200 or should I look for something else?

I really liked my low output Dynavector with Wilson Benesch Act 2 arm when I had it. Those days are sadly gone....

 

[Jn229]

I'll second the Benesch, a clumsy looking, handing arm, but a stable platform for a cart. The Benesch is fully adjustable in all 3 planes. I mounted a Grado Sonata, An Ortofon Kantrapunkt A and finally a Dynavector xx2, all with excellent results. The Benesch is a bitch to mount, you'll need to measure the spindle to pivot on the plinth not the arm.

 

[Punker X]

Do you think the V15 III would work on the RD11 / Rega R200 or should I look for something else?

Limited experience with Rega arms. Had a Benz Silver on Rega arm mounted on a Sota table at an AK fest and sounded good. The Benz silver reminds me a lot of a V15 III. Think you be fine with the V15. Can always upgrade down the road.

 

[prime minister]

Didn‘t you get an RP6 some years back?

And who was the crooked repair shop? Inquiring minds want to know. 😁

 

[adaug]

for ease of use and non-tweakiness, consider a direct drive. vintage direct drives are relative bargains even at today's somewhat inflated prices, and can sound great. they were engineered. given what you have described about your preferences, a linn-ish ariston does not seem to be a match.

PS there is a thread on HFH from last year on vintage direct drives.

 

[Tlarwa]

I've had a few vintage tables (Pioneer PL-50), AR-XA, AR-XB, Sansui SR-838, Kenwood KD-2055, and probably others I can't recall. By far the best one I owned, and regret selling, is the Empire 386. Bought it with the stock arm and eventually upgraded the arm to a Jelco 750d, which was a great combo. I loves the looks and performance of that table.

 

[Berkeley]

Didn‘t you get an RP6 some years back?

Good memory! It ran a little fast.... okay more than a little. Instead of 33.3 I clocked it (tested it) at 34.5 IIRC - not acceptable. Sounded pretty lively, though....

 

[adnick]

Believe the best value in high end vintage tables are:

ROK Rondine Deluxe, these have the big Ashland “H” motor and are fantastic tables when refurbished

Fairchild 412, an early model with the full cage and plaster filled platter, these are dual belt which eliminates belt variations and they have the “slam” of a big idler. Belts & motor mounts are usually needed but it’s a simple matte. The 412-1 is 33 rpm but there was a 412-2 33&45 on eBay recently.

Russco Studio Pro B, going up in price but can still be found for $300-400, 33 & 45 excellent build quality and can be tweaked considerably. The Cue Master isn’t as nice in build quality, lighter platter and no Armboard but has 33,45&78


Andy

 

[Wardsweb]

I have done both the ROK Rondine and Fairchild 412 for @watt . Maybe he could give us his thoughts, having lived with them.

 

[adnick]

I have done both the ROK Rondine and Fairchild 412 for @watt . Maybe he could give us his thoughts, having lived with them.

I’ve seen both, beautiful examples!

Have done both myself, let someone talk me out of my Rondine Deluxe, but still have my Fairchild 412, don’t see me ever getting rid of it…

Here is a couple of photos of mine

 

[watt]

Nice looking tables, adnick.

Like Wardsweb mentions above, I have the ROK and Fairchild too. I have a turntable problem. They're maybe the one machine I understand . . .

The ROK and the Fairchild are set up pretty differently in my house--the ROK with an older Grado woody tonearm (which works with the existing hole in the top plate) and the Fairchild in a plinth that accommodates a wide, wide variety of them. The ROK is beautiful (thanks to Luther), but the Fairchild gives me a lot more flexibility. And as a motor unit, it has a great Papst motor + flywheel + a pretty heavy platter, which = to my ears many of the things I've come to like about idler drives but with a lower noise floor. Just my experience.

Now if I could just sort out the motor controller I intended to build for it . . .

At the moment, though, I'm playing records with a Merrill Replica. Go figure. See? I do have a problem.

 

[adnick]

Nice looking tables, adnick.

Like Wardsweb mentions above, I have the ROK and Fairchild too. I have a turntable problem. They're maybe the one machine I understand . . .

The ROK and the Fairchild are set up pretty differently in my house--the ROK with an older Grado woody tonearm (which works with the existing hole in the top plate) and the Fairchild in a plinth that accommodates a wide, wide variety of them. The ROK is beautiful (thanks to Luther), but the Fairchild gives me a lot more flexibility. And as a motor unit, it has a great Papst motor + flywheel + a pretty heavy platter, which = to my ears many of the things I've come to like about idler drives but with a lower noise floor. Just my experience.

Now if I could just sort out the motor controller I intended to build for it . . .

At the moment, though, I'm playing records with a Merrill Replica. Go figure. See? I do have a problem.

Thanks, I also have a turntable problem Your tables are fantastic….

My ROK had a Delrin idler and I used a Derlin pad shaped like a sorta like a short pinnacle in place of the ball bearing. That Deluxe was extremely quite….

My Fairchild has the new fangled motor mounts and I use a Delrin ball in place of the ball bearing. The Derlin ball has been in use for almost a year with almost no perceived wear.

VR
Andy

 

[marantzfan]

Thanks, I also have a turntable problem Your tables are fantastic….

My ROK had a Delrin idler and I used a Derlin pad shaped like a sorta like a short pinnacle in place of the ball bearing. That Deluxe was extremely quite….

My Fairchild has the new fangled motor mounts and I use a Delrin ball in place of the ball bearing. The Derlin ball has been in use for almost a year with almost no perceived wear.

VR
Andy

Was ist das “Derlin pad shaped like a sorta like a short pinnacle” of which you speak…. Asking as a ROK owner.

 

[adnick]

Was ist das “Derlin pad shaped like a sorta like a short pinnacle” of which you speak…. Asking as a ROK owner.

Originally made one on a lathe based on a modification that @BillWojo did for the Russco Studio Pro

Bill made a new grub screw with a Delrin pad that replaced a metal ball bearing and it greatly reduced the Russco’s noise floor (photo attached of that modified grub screw)

After seeing how well this modification held up over time I switched from a making a pad on a lathe and used a Delrin ball bearing, have one in use on my Fairchild 412-1

Of course this is not a ”make & forget” modification, one has to check for wear, but this isn’t a monthly check kinda thing it’s probably more like 6 months to a year.

Here’s Bill’s modified grub screw, it’s still going strong in mu Russco

Andy

 

[Audio Refugee]

The one I've been looking and looking for is a Technics SL-1300mk2 or a Technics SL-1400mk2. I see them occasionally for as much as $1,000. Too much for my budget. One day I'll find one for a price I can afford. Just keep looking. There are some that seem similar, but I don't know enough about them to know if they're any good or not.