Rip SACD with a Blu-ray player

[MikeyFresh]

Forgot to add that I upgraded SACDExtractGUI but it didn't change the result of trying to rip the Dalberg DaCapo SACD.

Thank you for clarifying, that's very interesting that the Yamaha player can play the SACD layer, but the other 2 SACD capable units you have cannot. I suggest a disc authoring or other disc manufacturing anomaly causes that disc to be finicky. Somehow the laser mechanism in the Yamaha player is able to overcome it.

You might just try repeatedly loading the disc into the S5100 as described above by @NSBulk , it may just manage to read the SACD layer at some point, though if you were doing that in a rip attempt you won't get any visual indicator due to entering sleep mode (the display will not read SACD), so you'd just be left with attempting to Run the rip. Playing the disc (not ripping it) would give you the visual indicator of any successful read of the SACD layer, however in doing so you would not then be in the necessary sleep mode required to rip the disc.

I have never had that issue with any disc using any player model except my Pioneer BDP-80fd. The Pioneer units are known to be a little finicky with wanting to reject the SACD layer at times, mine every so often would do that, but on each occasion simply ejecting the disc tray and then closing it again solved it on the very next try.

 

[Pommel1]

Hi just new in this area. Got the player, a Denon 3313, prepared the USB, downloaded the sacd_ripper 0.3.9 but the file sacd_ripper does not open. Anything I have to do with it?

Tom

 

[MikeyFresh]

Hi just new in this area. Got the player, a Denon 3313, prepared the USB, downloaded the sacd_ripper 0.3.9 but the file sacd_ripper does not open. Anything I have to do with it?

Tom

Hi Tom - welcome to HFH.

Are you using Windows, macOS, or Linux?

I don't know what you mean by "sacd_ripper 0.3.9", did you download the entire SACDExtractGUI package linked to in Post #284 ? The package we use here does not have anything called sacd_ripper.

If you do have the package linked to in Post #284, then just open the GUI by clicking the .jar file, that is the Java applet used to launch sacd_extract.

 

[TC]

Thank you for clarifying, that's very interesting that the Yamaha player can play the SACD layer, but the other 2 SACD capable units you have cannot. I suggest a disc authoring or other disc manufacturing anomaly causes that disc to be finicky. Somehow the laser mechanism in the Yamaha player is able to overcome it.

You might just try repeatedly loading the disc into the S5100 as described above by @NSBulk , it may just manage to read the SACD layer at some point, though if you were doing that in a rip attempt you won't get any visual indicator due to entering sleep mode (the display will not read SACD), so you'd just be left with attempting to Run the rip. Playing the disc (not ripping it) would give you the visual indicator of any successful read of the SACD layer, however in doing so you would not then be in the necessary sleep mode required to rip the disc.

I have never had that issue with any disc using any player model except my Pioneer BDP-80fd. The Pioneer units are known to be a little finicky with wanting to reject the SACD layer at times, mine every so often would do that, but on each occasion simply ejecting the disc tray and then closing it again solved it on the very next try.

Thank you MikeyFresh for opening a whole new world of surround sound for me, which I've greatly enjoyed. I've been using Sony BDP-S5100 with your method for several months now, and have successfully ripped a number of discs. However, I'd like to report having the exact problem described by amh above. The problem disc is Tacet S 252 W.A. Mozart Works for Clarinet issued in 2019.

 

[TC]

Thank you MikeyFresh for opening a whole new world of surround sound for me, which I've greatly enjoyed. I've been using Sony BDP-S5100 with your method for several months now, and have successfully ripped a number of discs. However, I'd like to report having the exact problem described by amh above. The problem disc is Tacet S 252 W.A. Mozart Works for Clarinet issued in 2019.

Repeated attempt just now, immediately following successful rip of another disc. It worked.

 

[MikeyFresh]

Thank you MikeyFresh for opening a whole new world of surround sound for me, which I've greatly enjoyed.

My pleasure TC, welcome to HFH!

However, I'd like to report having the exact problem described by amh above. The problem disc is Tacet S 252 W.A. Mozart Works for Clarinet issued in 2019.

Repeated attempt just now, immediately following successful rip of another disc. It worked.

Thank you for the clarification, so the player was initially only reading the Redbook CD layer of that disc, but a separate attempt solved it?

 

[TC]

Well, I didn’t try to actually play the disc. I don’t have the Sony hooked up to a TV or sound system. I use it only for ripping SACD. So, I’m sorry, but I don’t have that information for you.

 

[Pommel1]

Thx Mikey found the mistake tried opening the .exe file in windows not the GUI. Now it works brilliant with the Denon! I also owe a DBT 1713 did anyone try this otherwise I can try.

 

[MikeyFresh]

I also owe a DBT 1713 did anyone try this otherwise I can try.

I did test that model with no success, however it hurts nothing for you to try as well, assuming you like just about everyone else has a bit of time on your hands right about now.

It does use a different SoC than the big brother 3313, however the real key to compatibility seems to be use of Linux kernel version 2.6.35, all known working players which detail that information seem to have 2.6.35.

Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be any easy way to tell which Linux kernel version is in use, the Denon players are even more of a mystery in that they steadfastly refuse to even detail the current firmware version in place, they simply notify if a new one is available and that is all. Really annoying.

Anyway, I tried the 1713 with all of the different script versions and came up empty, but if your machine has a different firmware than mine (again impossible to check that) it is at least conceivable that the 1713 might actually work. Mine does not.

Tried playing the .dsf with a Marantz NA 8005. Works fine with analog out but not coax. Does that account to all players? I know SACD only played analogue and HDMI so .dsf does the same?

All that I have ever tested are that way, they only allow digital output of DSD over HDMI, because HDMI employs the HDCP copy protection scheme.

 

[marcoHifi]

I have found a SACD disk that gives me the error : non zero or disc opened
The disc is labeled SACD but when I try to play it is CD
The disc is brand new : Living Stereo Fritz Reiner New Wold Symphony 828766637625
I have had no problems with my sony 6200
Is there a way to find out if it is a true SACD , some files on the disc or some software ?

When I ripped the cd layer I founded some errors on the first three track

Thanks
Marco

 

[NSBulk]

I have found a SACD disk that gives me the error : non zero or disc opened
The disc is labeled SACD but when I try to play it is CD
The disc is brand new : Living Stereo Fritz Reiner New Wold Symphony 828766637625
I have had no problems with my sony 6200
Is there a way to find out if it is a true SACD , some files on the disc or some software ?

When I ripped the cd layer I founded some errors on the first three track

Thanks
Marco

I didn't have an issue with that album.

 

[MikeyFresh]

I have found a SACD disk that gives me the error : non zero or disc opened
The disc is labeled SACD but when I try to play it is CD
The disc is brand new : Living Stereo Fritz Reiner New Wold Symphony 828766637625
I have had no problems with my sony 6200
Is there a way to find out if it is a true SACD , some files on the disc or some software ?

When I ripped the cd layer I founded some errors on the first three track

Thanks
Marco

How about if you just try to play the disc and not rip it, does the front panel LED display on the S6200 indicate SACD? Or, the on-screen display will say DSD on playback, if you have that unit connected to a monitor via HDMI. Those are the two easy ways, but that only tells you if the player is reading the SACD layer or not.

To know for sure, examine the inner hub ring in the center of the data side of the disc, with proper light and angle you should see two different bar code looking strings, that's the table of contents and timing code for each the Redbook and SACD layers of a hybrid disc, one ring encloses or wraps around the other, so there is an outer and an inner ring.

If you only see one such barcode, then it is a standard Redbook CD.

You will need good light and the right angle, turn the disc slightly to reveal both barcodes:



They don't all look exactly like that, many times the two are not on opposing sides of the disc as above, they are stacked one right on top of the other, like this:

 

[marcoHifi]

Hi NSBulk, and MikeyFresh

When I play, the Sony on-screen display shows CD not SACD

I see only one barcode and partially cover by color , very difficult to see

I ll try to play on other players when I could go outside

Many thanks

T

 

[marcoHifi]

Strange , to see differences of the CD layer , using my mac and XLD , I ripped an other Sacd Living Stereo series : Boston Symphony Orchestra, Charles Munch - C.Saint-Saèns
This disc is totally different and I can clearly see the two ring barcode

Also the log of the two Cd is different:

A - This the log of a correct SACD:

X Lossless Decoder version 20191004 (152.0)

XLD extraction logfile from 2020-04-02 14:54:38 +0200

Charles Munch, conductor; Boston Symphony Orchestra / A Hi-Fi Spectacular!

Used drive : HL-DT-ST DVD-RW GH61N (revision PA03)
Media type : Pressed CD

Ripper mode : XLD Secure Ripper
Disable audio cache : OK for the drive with a cache less than 1375KiB
Make use of C2 pointers : NO
Read offset correction : 667
Max retry count : 20
Gap status : Analyzed, Appended

TOC of the extracted CD
Track | Start | Length | Start sector | End sector
---------------------------------------------------------
1 | 00:00:00 | 09:53:43 | 0 | 44517
2 | 09:53:43 | 09:36:32 | 44518 | 87749
3 | 19:30:00 | 07:33:35 | 87750 | 121759
4 | 27:03:35 | 07:48:05 | 121760 | 156864
5 | 34:51:40 | 08:37:14 | 156865 | 195653
6 | 43:28:54 | 06:15:51 | 195654 | 223829
7 | 49:44:30 | 07:58:60 | 223830 | 259739
8 | 57:43:15 | 06:34:40 | 259740 | 289329
9 | 64:17:55 | 02:42:36 | 289330 | 301515
10 | 67:00:16 | 06:04:27 | 301516 | 328842

List of alternate offset correction values
# | Absolute | Relative | Confidence
------------------------------------------
1 | 83 | -584 | 149
2 | 101 | -566 | 127
3 | 479 | -188 | 86
4 | 569 | -98 | 14
5 | 125 | -542 | 9
6 | 485 | -182 | 2

AccurateRip Summary (DiscID: 001eaace-00ef3cf5-9111200a)
Track 01 : OK (v1+v2, confidence 87/471)
Track 02 : OK (v1+v2, confidence 89/473)
Track 03 : OK (v1+v2, confidence 89/474)
Track 04 : OK (v1+v2, confidence 89/474)
Track 05 : OK (v1+v2, confidence 89/472)
Track 06 : OK (v1+v2, confidence 90/473)
Track 07 : OK (v1+v2, confidence 89/470)
Track 08 : OK (v1+v2, confidence 88/468)
Track 09 : OK (v1+v2, confidence 84/465)
Track 10 : OK (v1+v2, confidence 79/450)
->All tracks accurately ripped.

All Tracks
Album gain : 0.19 dB
Peak : 0.999969
Statistics
Read error : 0
Jitter error (maybe fixed) : 0
Retry sector count : 0
Damaged sector count : 0




B - This is the log of the bad Sacd


X Lossless Decoder version 20191004 (152.0)

XLD extraction logfile from 2020-03-31 18:14:34 +0200

Fritz Reiner, conductor; Chicago Symphony Orchestra / Dvorák: New World Symphony and Other Orchestral Masterworks

Used drive : HL-DT-ST DVD-RW GH61N (revision PA03)
Media type : CD-Recordable

Ripper mode : XLD Secure Ripper
Disable audio cache : OK for the drive with a cache less than 1375KiB
Make use of C2 pointers : NO
Read offset correction : 667
Max retry count : 20
Gap status : Analyzed, Appended

TOC of the extracted CD
Track | Start | Length | Start sector | End sector
---------------------------------------------------------
1 | 00:00:00 | 08:47:70 | 0 | 39594
2 | 08:47:70 | 12:27:01 | 39595 | 95620
3 | 21:14:71 | 07:33:66 | 95621 | 129661
4 | 28:48:62 | 10:33:37 | 129662 | 177173
5 | 39:22:24 | 08:53:66 | 177174 | 217214
6 | 48:16:15 | 06:32:47 | 217215 | 246661
7 | 54:48:62 | 09:18:74 | 246662 | 288585

List of alternate offset correction values
# | Absolute | Relative | Confidence
------------------------------------------
1 | 679 | 12 | 150
2 | 15 | -652 | 131
3 | 577 | -90 | 59
4 | 583 | -84 | 17

AccurateRip Summary (DiscID: 00123a13-006c7a40-650f0707)
Track 01 : OK (v1+v2, confidence 62/419)
Track 02 : NG (total 416 submissions)
Track 03 : NG (total 418 submissions)
Track 04 : OK (v1+v2, confidence 62/418)
Track 05 : OK (v1+v2, confidence 62/417)
Track 06 : OK (v1+v2, confidence 61/414)
Track 07 : OK (v1+v2, confidence 62/412)
->5 tracks accurately ripped, 2 tracks not

All Tracks
Album gain : -2.25 dB
Peak : 0.938019
Statistics
Read error : 0
Jitter error (maybe fixed) : 0
Retry sector count : 25
Damaged sector count : 0



Thank

 

[MikeyFresh]

Strange , to see differences of the CD layer , using my mac and XLD , I ripped an other Sacd Living Stereo series : Boston Symphony Orchestra, Charles Munch - C.Saint-Saèns
This disc is totally different and I can clearly see the two ring barcode

Also the log of the two Cd is different:

A - This the log of a correct SACD:

X Lossless Decoder version 20191004 (152.0)

XLD extraction logfile from 2020-04-02 14:54:38 +0200

Charles Munch, conductor; Boston Symphony Orchestra / A Hi-Fi Spectacular!

Used drive : HL-DT-ST DVD-RW GH61N (revision PA03)
Media type : Pressed CD

Ripper mode : XLD Secure Ripper
Disable audio cache : OK for the drive with a cache less than 1375KiB
Make use of C2 pointers : NO
Read offset correction : 667
Max retry count : 20
Gap status : Analyzed, Appended

TOC of the extracted CD
Track | Start | Length | Start sector | End sector
---------------------------------------------------------
1 | 00:00:00 | 09:53:43 | 0 | 44517
2 | 09:53:43 | 09:36:32 | 44518 | 87749
3 | 19:30:00 | 07:33:35 | 87750 | 121759
4 | 27:03:35 | 07:48:05 | 121760 | 156864
5 | 34:51:40 | 08:37:14 | 156865 | 195653
6 | 43:28:54 | 06:15:51 | 195654 | 223829
7 | 49:44:30 | 07:58:60 | 223830 | 259739
8 | 57:43:15 | 06:34:40 | 259740 | 289329
9 | 64:17:55 | 02:42:36 | 289330 | 301515
10 | 67:00:16 | 06:04:27 | 301516 | 328842

List of alternate offset correction values
# | Absolute | Relative | Confidence
------------------------------------------
1 | 83 | -584 | 149
2 | 101 | -566 | 127
3 | 479 | -188 | 86
4 | 569 | -98 | 14
5 | 125 | -542 | 9
6 | 485 | -182 | 2

AccurateRip Summary (DiscID: 001eaace-00ef3cf5-9111200a)
Track 01 : OK (v1+v2, confidence 87/471)
Track 02 : OK (v1+v2, confidence 89/473)
Track 03 : OK (v1+v2, confidence 89/474)
Track 04 : OK (v1+v2, confidence 89/474)
Track 05 : OK (v1+v2, confidence 89/472)
Track 06 : OK (v1+v2, confidence 90/473)
Track 07 : OK (v1+v2, confidence 89/470)
Track 08 : OK (v1+v2, confidence 88/468)
Track 09 : OK (v1+v2, confidence 84/465)
Track 10 : OK (v1+v2, confidence 79/450)
->All tracks accurately ripped.

All Tracks
Album gain : 0.19 dB
Peak : 0.999969
Statistics
Read error : 0
Jitter error (maybe fixed) : 0
Retry sector count : 0
Damaged sector count : 0




B - This is the log of the bad Sacd


X Lossless Decoder version 20191004 (152.0)

XLD extraction logfile from 2020-03-31 18:14:34 +0200

Fritz Reiner, conductor; Chicago Symphony Orchestra / Dvorák: New World Symphony and Other Orchestral Masterworks

Used drive : HL-DT-ST DVD-RW GH61N (revision PA03)
Media type : CD-Recordable

Ripper mode : XLD Secure Ripper
Disable audio cache : OK for the drive with a cache less than 1375KiB
Make use of C2 pointers : NO
Read offset correction : 667
Max retry count : 20
Gap status : Analyzed, Appended

TOC of the extracted CD
Track | Start | Length | Start sector | End sector
---------------------------------------------------------
1 | 00:00:00 | 08:47:70 | 0 | 39594
2 | 08:47:70 | 12:27:01 | 39595 | 95620
3 | 21:14:71 | 07:33:66 | 95621 | 129661
4 | 28:48:62 | 10:33:37 | 129662 | 177173
5 | 39:22:24 | 08:53:66 | 177174 | 217214
6 | 48:16:15 | 06:32:47 | 217215 | 246661
7 | 54:48:62 | 09:18:74 | 246662 | 288585

List of alternate offset correction values
# | Absolute | Relative | Confidence
------------------------------------------
1 | 679 | 12 | 150
2 | 15 | -652 | 131
3 | 577 | -90 | 59
4 | 583 | -84 | 17

AccurateRip Summary (DiscID: 00123a13-006c7a40-650f0707)
Track 01 : OK (v1+v2, confidence 62/419)
Track 02 : NG (total 416 submissions)
Track 03 : NG (total 418 submissions)
Track 04 : OK (v1+v2, confidence 62/418)
Track 05 : OK (v1+v2, confidence 62/417)
Track 06 : OK (v1+v2, confidence 61/414)
Track 07 : OK (v1+v2, confidence 62/412)
->5 tracks accurately ripped, 2 tracks not

All Tracks
Album gain : -2.25 dB
Peak : 0.938019
Statistics
Read error : 0
Jitter error (maybe fixed) : 0
Retry sector count : 25
Damaged sector count : 0



Thank

Yes that is quite strange, XLD reporting that is a CD-R, and it looks like one too. I don't actually see any barcode in your photo, and that is consistent with a CD-R as reported by XLD. I wonder if that disc was a counterfeit?

Surely the label side of the disc looks like the real thing, but the underside does not.

One thing is for sure, if you can't actually play any SACD layer, then you also can't rip it, assuming it even exists. I'm sorry to say it but I don't think that is a genuine SACD.

 

[NSBulk]

Amazon still has this disc for $10.

Antonin Dvorak, Fritz Reiner, Chicago Symphony Orchestra - Dvorak: New World Symphony and Other Orchestral Masterworks - Amazon.com Music

Antonin Dvorak, Fritz Reiner, Chicago Symphony Orchestra - Dvorak: New World Symphony and Other Orchestral Masterworks - Amazon.com Music

smile.amazon.com

I checked mine and I see all sorts of barcodes on the disc itself.

Sometimes manufacturing plants screw up. I produced an album once that the plant pressed on CD-Rs. That wasn't supposed to happen. Customers weren't happy.

Neil

 

[MikeyFresh]

I see another anomaly in that the jewel case is not the type used for the RCA Living Stereo SACD releases, it looks like a standard jewel case but it should be a "super jewel box" which has rounded corners among other minor differences.

If it isn't counterfeit, then it would seem Sony/BMG were lazy when they switched this catalog back to Redbook CD, and at least for a time used the same disc labeling to indicate SACD, when it no longer was.

I guess it's also possible the original "super jewel box" was dropped from a height and shattered, and then subsequently replaced with a standard jewel case. Broken jewel cases are annoying, I for one replaced any that became broken over time, so I guess the fact this disc is not in the right jewel case doesn't tell us much, unless @marcoHifi knows he is the original owner and never replaced the jewel case. If so it points further in the direction of a counterfeit, or a production error at the pressing plant as described by @NSBulk .

 

[marcoHifi]

NSBulk,
Of course that's what I bought
the packaging and the booklet inside are like the originals, but the disc is almost transparent,
the version used costs double
I wrote to the seller through amazon and he returned the sum to me

thank NSBulk and Mikey

 

[NSBulk]

@marcoHifi it sounds like you bought this from a 3rd party seller. The link I provided is from Amazon directly. You could also buy it from Acoustic Sounds for a little more money.

Fritz Reiner-Dvorak New World Symphony Carnival Overture Smetana Bartered Bride Overture-Hybrid Multichannel SACD|Acoustic Sounds

Acoustic Sounds Audiophile Vinyl Records

store.acousticsounds.com

 

[MikeyFresh]

@marcoHifi it sounds like you bought this from a 3rd party seller. The link I provided is from Amazon directly. You could also buy it from Acoustic Sounds for a little more money.

Fritz Reiner-Dvorak New World Symphony Carnival Overture Smetana Bartered Bride Overture-Hybrid Multichannel SACD|Acoustic Sounds

Acoustic Sounds Audiophile Vinyl Records

store.acousticsounds.com

Marco is in Italy, so perhaps not quite that easy (or inexpensive) where he is located, but surely a genuine copy of that title will turn up on Amazon.it, or eBay.

thank NSBulk and Mikey

Stay safe and be well!