Rip SACD with a Blu-ray player
- Thread starter MikeyFresh
- Start date
Just one point related to
AnywayL the 6-7 sycle is really slowing things down (I huess every instance is counted, so ST and 5Ch sections are counted as 2 so 3 SACD's is 6, sometimes dropping out after 5ch and then I am missing the ST sections. So if the leak could be fixed that would be awesome.
I have set my network link to static address (it is called reserved or something) - with dynamic the address might change, with preserved the address will stay the same. I am also trying to get this to work linking the SONY BD directly to my laptop, omitting the ub completely and maybe making it more stable and faster.
AnywayL the 6-7 sycle is really slowing things down (I huess every instance is counted, so ST and 5Ch sections are counted as 2 so 3 SACD's is 6, sometimes dropping out after 5ch and then I am missing the ST sections. So if the leak could be fixed that would be awesome.
I don't know what you are referring to with regard to omitting the "ub", however I can tell you that your network should not be presenting any bottle neck in speed.
The real speed bottle neck, and one you can't do anything about, is the read speed of the optical drive inside the Blu-ray player. That will top out at around 3 MB/sec, and so you will go no faster than that no matter what. In terms of speed, some people think the fastest thing to do is create only an ISO when ripping the SACD, which is pretty fast because you are not trying to get rid of the DST compression on the MCH tracks, an ISO is just a complete archival copy, including the DST and all (DST decompression slows things a lot).
Then put the GUI in "File" mode, Browse to find your ISO, and extract the Stereo or MCH tracks at your leisure. The speed bottleneck of the optical drive is removed at this point, and extraction from ISO is much faster than extraction from the SACD itself, though admittedly that first step in creating the ISO takes time and can't be avoided. However if you then wish only to extract the Stereo, or MCH tracks (or even both), doing so from the ISO is faster than doing so from the SACD because you don't have the optical drive slowing you down. This also removes the network aspect too, however unless your network is seriously bogged down with other large bandwidth processes, that isn't really an issue.
Again, this does overlook the fact that you are still limited to a maximum of about 2-3 MB/sec by the optical drive itself in creating the ISO in the first place, but some people think this is an overall faster way for them to do it, especially those that want to keep an ISO as archival, but not necessarily rush to extract both the Stereo and MCH right now.
TL;DR: Do read errors get reported, or should I rip twice to ensure accuracy?
Apologies if this has been asked before; it's a long thread and the search function didn't turn up anything. Thanks to the instructions here, I was able to get going quickly using the AutoScript to run sacd_extract_160 in server mode on my BDP-S590 and connecting to it from EuFlo's sacd_extract running on my Linux machine. My question is what happens if there is a read error on the disc. Does sacd_extract_160 on the player report the read error back to sacd_extract running on the computer to be reported to the user, or is there a possibility of glitches being introduced due to a read error without any warning or error being displayed on the computer end?
I'm wondering if I should rip all of my SACDs twice and compare to ensure I have accurate rips, or if a single rip with no errors or warnings gives a sufficiently high confidence of no errors.
Thanks!
Apologies if this has been asked before; it's a long thread and the search function didn't turn up anything. Thanks to the instructions here, I was able to get going quickly using the AutoScript to run sacd_extract_160 in server mode on my BDP-S590 and connecting to it from EuFlo's sacd_extract running on my Linux machine. My question is what happens if there is a read error on the disc. Does sacd_extract_160 on the player report the read error back to sacd_extract running on the computer to be reported to the user, or is there a possibility of glitches being introduced due to a read error without any warning or error being displayed on the computer end?
I'm wondering if I should rip all of my SACDs twice and compare to ensure I have accurate rips, or if a single rip with no errors or warnings gives a sufficiently high confidence of no errors.
Thanks!
What does the GUI tell you when ripping any particular disc?
Most recent rip:
Code:
$ ./sacd_extract -i 192.168.1.76:2002 -I -o /home/rkjnsn/Music/SACD
sacd_extract client 0.3.9.3-107-g01c90ddafb0256f3eb194d2c62e7ee5ba14b1c12
Enhanced by euflo ....starting!
Current (working) directory (for the app and 'sacd_extract.cfg' file): /home/rkjnsn/Projects/SACD/sacd_extract
Found configuration 'sacd_extract.cfg' file...
Artist will be added in folder name (artist=1) yes
Performer will be added in filename of track (performer=0) no
Padding-less (nopad=0) no
Pauses included (pauses=0) no
Concatenate (concatenate=0) no
ID3tagV2.4 (id3tag = 4) yes
Logging (logging = 0) no
The size of sacd is ok (sectors=2261922). Size is: 4632416256 bytes, 4.632 GB (gigabyte)
Exporting ISO output in file: /home/rkjnsn/Music/SACD/Derek & The Dominos - Layla And Other Assorted Love Songs/Derek & The Dominos - Layla And Other Assorted Love Songs.iso
Started at: Fri Jun 24 17:58:41 2022
Processing [/home/rkjnsn/Music/SACD/Derek & The Dominos - Layla And Other Assorted Love Songs/Derek & The Dominos - Layla And Other Assorted Love Songs.iso] (1/1)..
Completed: 100% (file sectors processed: 2261922 / total sectors:2261922)
Ended at: Fri Jun 24 18:35:38 2022
[elapsed: 00 hours:36 minutes:57 seconds]
We are done exporting ISO.
Program terminates!So there you have it for that particular disc, the read/rip matches what the disc's TOC indicated all of the sectors to be read were:
The size of sacd is ok (sectors=2261922). Size is: 4632416256 bytes, 4.632 GB (gigabyte)
Completed: 100% (file sectors processed: 2261922 / total sectors:2261922)
I wouldn't be too concerned about this sort of thing except in the cases of physically damaged discs. If the disc is scratched or smudged/dirty, or if it had been subjected to harsh environmental conditions over many years such as high temperature/humidity with no air conditioning, then perhaps it could produce some read errors. Even then a cleaning should help all but bad scratches.
If you have a large collection of old discs that need ripping, maybe logical then to start with the oldest discs and get those out of the way as it would seem unlikely that any newer production disc bought more recently would have any issues.
Since there is no accurate rip database to compare SACD rips to as with commercial CD releases, the best you can do is trust the program has properly read the disc's TOC, and has then read all of the sectors expected during the rip.
I've ripped hundreds of SACDs, and not once have I then heard what could be called an audible glitch during playback. That said, my discs are in pretty much perfect condition, and all of the oldest ones were ripped long ago. Now all I rip are brand new SACD releases, other than the occasional used disc I find and buy on eBay.
If you do have any damaged discs, it is possible the GUI might indicate some sectors were unreadable. I've not yet had that happen, although many of my older rips used an older version of sacd_extract that did not have this feature. I won't go back and re-rip anything though unless I hear audible glitches.
I guess whether or not this will happen is the crux of my question. Do any and all errors reading the disc get propagated to the client computer as error messages, or does the drive sometimes do error hiding / return garbage for bad sectors? I guess it's easy enough to rip each iso twice and verify the copies are identical, so perhaps I'll just keep doing that for piece of mind.
I am now used to the crawl of the ISO and then extract the DSF compared with the ISO, if the extraction fails or the extraction of the DSF song length is inconsistent with the ISO, That shows that the ISO is wrong, need to re-grasp!
I thought I would add my experience and observations to what Mike noted:
- If you will see keywords "error" or "warning" I would suggest re-ripping. I've had dirty and badly scratched SACDs that have caused errors. But they are rare. Here "rinse and repeat" is a good literal approach. Only once did it not fix the issue - the badly scratched SACD.
- I rip both stereo and multi-channel - most issues show up on multichannel for me.
- For a long time, I had multiple rips of the same SACD's lying around because I was testing new versions of the SACD_extract software. In the last few versions of the software, it became a moot point because I was only testing new/updated features, the actual ripping portion of the software was solid.
- I thought there might be a qualitative improvement in the rip, but nah, the rip was the identical down to the byte even across software versions. I did file comparisons on the binaries to prove that to myself (along with listening). There was no point in making a second copy for me.
If you are using the current version of the software (SACD_extract), you might consider keeping an offline back up of one rip rather than making two separate rips.
To your point about making 2 rips: I have not found an audible error in the resulting dsf's or flac files that was not detected in by the SACD_extract software while ripping. That quality has been consistent for me across hundreds of ripping and re-ripping SACD's and the latest versions of SACD_extract (authored by euflo).
Ultimately, you should feel confident using the software and methods described here. Its good stuff has been and continues to be heavily tested and has really smart folks with decades of experience backing it (big thanks to Mike).
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Thanks Mike,
:-) regarding the metadata, I agree - the ripping is solid.
On that note, I planned to categorize issues that I saw with metadata and make recommendations about how they might be resolved. Unfortunately, I've not started that yet. Consider this note an I-owe-you.
For others reading this, the problem that we speak of is that metadata, paraphrasing comments from Mike and others, is its random-like structure stemming from the lack of a standard, which produces unexpected and inconsistent results. This is especially true with Classical music.
Caveat: as you point out Mike, there is not a fast/easy way out of that mess. Witness Roon, JRiver and others who still have issues with it.
Did you ever try MusicBrainz Picard ? It's not perfect, but can do whole albums at a time, if everything works. Installers for Win/MacOS/Linux too.
I have not but probably should. My personal issues with sloppy meta data have so far not been too daunting, but only because I have a somewhat limited collection of Classical music SACDs. Most nearly all of my jazz or rock SACDs have good meta data, or contained only minor "here and there" types of errors in the authoring.
Classical music on the other hand just has a lot more meta data, and so much greater chance for things to have gone wrong in authoring, and as Steve said, really it also comes down to a lack of standards with regard to what exactly should/needs to be included, everything from the Composer, to Conductor, Orchestra, soloists or other featured performers, the Work, and the Piece may or may not be present in the meta data on any given disc.
Compounding that are some multi-disc sets, where the manner in which the meta data on Disc 1 was authored is not completely consistent with how the meta data on Disc 2, or Disc 3 in that same set is authored, driving some folks crazy. Final insult to injury there are the different software players: Roon, JRiver, Audirvana, Foobar, Media Monkey, etc... and what they even offer/allow as far as sorting by, or displaying certain meta data fields.
But now we are off-topic for this thread, thats really a post-rip issue for the most part, though the .cfg file found in EuFlo's enhanced version of sacd_extract does offer some upfront tag control at the ripping stage.
Hey. First-time visitor, first-time pest.
A few years ago, I was successfully ripping SACDs via iMac + Oppo 103, using Terminal commands (I had uninstalled Java a long time prior). Hard to learn, but I did get it. The last one I’d done was in June ’20.
Tried to do a few more in late Dec ’20, and failed after many tries, lotsa reading and forum input. Gave up. Tried again recently, found HFH and tried to get lucky by attempting your instructions at the beginning of this long thread. One fail after another, plus other reading, led me to perceive there were others having similar issues: what worked before stopped working, seemingly in 2020.
So I took a chance with a later (4/21) entry on this thread, hoping to find some current development that was causing this, plus a fix for it. Started here: Rip SACD with a Blu-ray player
My system: 2013 iMac / macOS 10.12.6 / Oppo 103 / Ethernet only. Music playback is JRiver. I’m familiar with both 2.0 DSF files and 5.1 DSF derived from ISO.
I even bought a used Sony 5100, hoping to catch a break. (Of course I failed.)
I reluctantly reinstalled Java, and tried to get ISO2DSD gui to work. Fail. I presume I will be steered into SACDExtractGUI, but I don’t understand its setup using Terminal (ACTUALLY drag and drop a file into Terminal window?).
Am I even looking at current information in that 4/21 portion of this thread?
This is what has me most concerned:
Anyway, your descriptions really are actually clear; I pretty much understand them, even the don’t-rename-this, don’t-move-that details. Always mindful of IP address. Still, I’m missing something basic at the front end. The GUI is becoming more difficult than using Terminal commands. Ripping is a breeze. Setting up for ripping somehow escapes me entirely.
Thanks in advance. I appreciate the deep knowledge base here at HFH.
.
A few years ago, I was successfully ripping SACDs via iMac + Oppo 103, using Terminal commands (I had uninstalled Java a long time prior). Hard to learn, but I did get it. The last one I’d done was in June ’20.
Tried to do a few more in late Dec ’20, and failed after many tries, lotsa reading and forum input. Gave up. Tried again recently, found HFH and tried to get lucky by attempting your instructions at the beginning of this long thread. One fail after another, plus other reading, led me to perceive there were others having similar issues: what worked before stopped working, seemingly in 2020.
So I took a chance with a later (4/21) entry on this thread, hoping to find some current development that was causing this, plus a fix for it. Started here: Rip SACD with a Blu-ray player
My system: 2013 iMac / macOS 10.12.6 / Oppo 103 / Ethernet only. Music playback is JRiver. I’m familiar with both 2.0 DSF files and 5.1 DSF derived from ISO.
I even bought a used Sony 5100, hoping to catch a break. (Of course I failed.)
I reluctantly reinstalled Java, and tried to get ISO2DSD gui to work. Fail. I presume I will be steered into SACDExtractGUI, but I don’t understand its setup using Terminal (ACTUALLY drag and drop a file into Terminal window?).
I think my real problems are at the very beginning with various downloads. Things I download seldom appear as described in forum discussions; sometimes sacd_extract files show up as Unix, sometimes not. And there are several unexplained options; the recommended sacd_extract-0.3.9.3-99-macOS doesn’t show up as Unix, but there are other undiscussed Mac choices in ‘assets’ that do, namely, “107”. Is this safe to use?
Am I even looking at current information in that 4/21 portion of this thread?
This is what has me most concerned:
I don’t know programming (or networking) at all. Certainly not enough to make guesses. I need explicit directions, especially if I have to fiddle with Terminal again; I only use that in extreme emergencies. And it would be just like me to brick my desktop by making one of my “guesses”. Once more for emphasis, I really need EXACT descriptions when using Terminal.
Anyway, your descriptions really are actually clear; I pretty much understand them, even the don’t-rename-this, don’t-move-that details. Always mindful of IP address. Still, I’m missing something basic at the front end. The GUI is becoming more difficult than using Terminal commands. Ripping is a breeze. Setting up for ripping somehow escapes me entirely.
Thanks in advance. I appreciate the deep knowledge base here at HFH.
.
Welcome to HFH, glad you've come aboard.
That is not the case, simply various folks using various different Blu-ray players and either Windows, macOS or Linux, all need to pay attention to various details in order to get things underway. There are very close to zero users on this forum who completely failed/walked away from it, 99% of those who go through the troubleshooting steps get it solved in short order.
Moreover, nothing changed at any point that would cause an Oppo BDP-103 to stop ripping SACD, and the only thing I know of that can cause that to happen is a failure of the laser's pickup to read the SACD layer of the disc. If the player can still play the SACD, then it can rip the SACD, period (hard stop).
Which player will you now be attempting to use for ripping, the Oppo, or the Sony? They have a slightly different method or set of steps in executing the rip, as well as player Settings that need to be checked.
The problem we will have here is we don't know for sure what you've downloaded previously. This makes it very hard to answer your questions, however if you can say for sure you have only downloads that were accessed using the links found here (and not elsewhere), we can safely proceed with those.
If on the other hand you've got downloads from who knows where, you need to delete all of those and we'll start over with fresh known to work files using only the download links found here.
You don't say from which download site you are accessing these files. That makes it impossible to know for sure what you have or don't have. If you are referring to EuFlo's Github site, all of those downloads labeled as for use with macOS are good, but you should use the most recently updated -107 version.
Nothing will automatically show as a Unix Executable, the folks at Apple see to it, it's a security measure meant to protect you from software that is not accompanied by a signed developer certificate, i.e. non-commercial software.
Anything that does show as a Unix Executable means it has been deemed such by you, using the Terminal commands described here. You might think you hadn't accomplished that, but rest assured if the file describes as a Unit Executable in Finder, you succeeded with those commands, otherwise that file will still describe as a TextEdit file. This is a black and white situation with no in-between.
You don't need to know programming at all, you aren't actually programming anything there, nor is there any guessing involved. The instructions provided are EXACT, just as you see them, and again, if the sacd_extract file describes as a Unix Executable in Finder, you succeeded with those instructions. You cannot brick your desktop using any instructions provided here, please try not to overthink any of this.
So it's exactly as described regarding the instructions for making sacd_extract a Unix Executable, however let's not lose our lid on that just yet. Simply open the Finder and navigate to your folder or the location where you have the sacd_extract file. Single-click to highlight it, and tell me if it is described as a Unix executable or not:
Lets start there, to recap:
- Which player are you using, the Oppo, or the Sony?
- Did you use our download links or you don't know anymore?
- Does sacd_extract describe as a Unix Executable or not?
Hey Mikey
Thanks for the detailed (and fast) reply. Must be a slow news day, heh...
1. Oppo only. Sony disconnected for now.
2. Used only your download links; all others trashed in the interest of starting over.
3. Yes, sacd_extract is Unix Executable.
I guess my only legit concern was if "107" was OK to use.
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Thanks for the detailed (and fast) reply. Must be a slow news day, heh...
1. Oppo only. Sony disconnected for now.
2. Used only your download links; all others trashed in the interest of starting over.
3. Yes, sacd_extract is Unix Executable.
I guess my only legit concern was if "107" was OK to use.
.
You are just about good to go then, and you did follow those Terminal command instructions correctly.
For Oppo players, you must ensure both the Auto-play, and Auto-resume functions in the player's Settings menu are both disabled, as they interfere with the ripping process.
Are you still using the same exact USB flash drive as you did previously when you originally had this working on the Oppo? That AutoScript folder must look exactly like this:
Welllll... I didn't use Terminal at all(?). 107 showed up as Unix upon download. Maybe I have some forgotten preference set for Mac to do that in the background???
Anyway...
Don't remember which flash drive I was using before, but here is how it appears today, along with Unix confirmation:
All signs point to go... I'm gonna go ahead and perform the one task I am confident in – actually ripping the disc!
Thanx again, Mikey.
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